Monday, August 01, 2011

KHỦNG BỐ ở Na Uy_ Ý Kiến- Phê Bình- Thảo Luận_ Norway shootings: live

Norway shootings: live

Live coverage from Norway as police question Anders Breivik for a second time and the first funerals and memorial services are held for the 77 people killed.


Image 1 of 7
Norwegian prime minister and leader of the Labour Party, Jens Stoltenberg, (C) and others hold flowers at a memorial gathering in Oslo on July 29, 2011 Photo: AFP


By Amy Willis
1:00PM BST 29 Jul 2011
6431 Comments

• Death toll raised to 77 as first funerals for victims held
• PM calls massacre a day when Norway was "struck by evil"
• Two psychiatrists appointed to assess Breivik's mental health
• Breivik questioned for second time
• Police say all dead have now been identified
• British blogger admits he 'may be Breivik's inspiration'
• Car bomb was parked just feet from PM's office

Latest
19.00 That is all for today. For further coverage of the Norwegian massacre, see our Norway page.

18.30 A majority of Dutch believe that Geert Wilders, the anti-immigration politician much admired by Norway's mass murderer, does not need to tone down his inflammatory anti-Islamic comments, a poll has showed.

Polling firm Maurice de Hond said that 52 percent of those surveyed thought Mr Wilders did not need to moderate his stance on the supposed "Islamisation of Europe" in the wake of the Norway killings, while 44 percent said Mr Wilders should tone it down.

Mr Wilders has been criticised for speaking out against Islam and immigration, with comments comparing Islam to Nazism. Last month, a Dutch court acquitted Mr Wilders of inciting hatred of Muslims.
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From the WebFORM THE WEB:Daybreak: Out In Force in Syria15 Jul 2011(Tablet Magazine)Turkish PM, Army Meet to Appoint New High Command01 Aug 2011(CNBC)Syria Drops of the Internet Amid Turmoil03 Jun 2011(CIO)[what's this]The Norwegian gunman reproduced anti-Islamic comments that Mr Wilders made to the Dutch parliament and expressed his admiration of the Dutch politician in his 1,500-page manifesto.

Mr Wilders has repeatedly denounced Breivik and his actions in the week since the July 22 attack.

17.30 BREAKING The death toll has been lifted to 77 after police release more names of victims.

Henning Holtaas, a police attorney, said the unidentified victim died at a hospital of wounds he suffered during the shooting rampage on Utoya island.

16.25 The Norwegian flag also flew at half mast today at the maximum security prison where Breivik is being held.

15.50 Police have said Norway's security service will issue a new evaluation of the threat posed by extremists. Since the massacre, questions have persisted about whether authorities had underestimated extremist dangers in Norway.

15.20 The Socialist group in the European Parliament and a Roma rights group have called on the ruling party in Romania to expel a lawmaker who pinned blame for the Norway attacks on EU leaders.

The Romanian MP, who in the past took anti-Roma stands and pleaded for the restoration of the death penalty, wrote that "it is not (Anders Behring) Breivik that perpetrated the attack but the current EU leaders."

Citing contradictory statements on immigration and multiculturalism in such countries as Germany and France, he said that political leaders are turning Europe into a "powder keg". He said:

In this chaos, it is surprising that just one European has pushed the trigger to voice frustration at the European politicians' indifference and hypocrisy in the face of Islamisation and illegal immigration

15.00 Police are now holding a press conference in Norway. The spokesperson is keen to make a statement on the response time of the police arriving at Utoya.

The local district was alarmed when they got the first call. Cars were sent to the island straight away and local police were sent straight away.


14.38 The Norwegian Labour Party has had a surge of support following the twin attacks last Friday; with their polls leaping ahead.

14.00 Norwegian tabloid VG is running a story about claims that Breivik received military training in Belarus. They also say a Norwegian company has confirmed selling weapons to the 32 year-old. Here is a snippet of the article using Google translate.

QUOTE: Anders Behring Breivik could have received military training at a secret paramilitary base in Belarus, according to a Belarusian opposition politician.

Breivik visited Belarus several times. This spring, as part of preparations for the double attack, he visited Minsk, where he participated in training at a secret paramilitary base, said Mikhail Resjetnikov, leader of the opposition Patriot Party, told the newspaper.

According to Resjetnikov, Breivik may have been involved in "sabotage-terrorist exercises" under the direction of a former officer in the security services in Belarus. He could have used a false passport to enter the country.

Belarus' KGB gave him the code name Viking. Rumour has it that he also had a girlfriend in Belarus, said Resjetnikov.



13.45 Around the world people on Twitter have also been taking part in a minute's silence. The hashtag #amomentofsilence is now trending.


13.10 A bit more on prime minister Jens Stoltenberg's speech at the memorial service where he said the attacks were an "attack on our democracy" and it was a day when Norway was "struck by evil".

The prime minister also led a minute's silence before delivering his speech to hundreds of members of the Labour Party.

Roses were held up at the service in tribute to the victims as they are the Labour Party emblem.


QUOTE: The bullets hit our young, but they also struck an entire nation.

An attack against political engagement is an attack on our democracy

Today, it is exactly one week since Norway was struck by evil

Now, the time has come to commemmorate those who died



13.00 Our man on the Telegraph video desk Gregg Morgan has sent over the following clip of a survivor saying he wants to go back to Utoya to "make peace".


12.55 Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg said some strong words during his speech at the memorial service. He started by saying the service marked "one week since Norway was hit by evil".

12.45 A picture of Breivik as a 10 year-old has emerged. In his killing manifesto Breivik claimed he was a member of the Knights Templar, so it is rather chilling to see him dressed as a knight in this childhood photo.


Anders Behring Breivik as a Child in a School Play dressed as a knight REX FEATURES

12.35 We are now hearing that Norwegian prosecutors have appointed two psychiatrists to assess the mental health of Breivik after the 32-year-old gunman was questioned by investigators for a second time this morning.

The experts will determine if he is criminally responsible and deliver their report "by November 1," prosecutor Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby said.

12.30 Here is a picture of the memorial service. Prime minister Jens Stoltenberg appears at the centre of the photo.


Norwegian prime minister and leader of the Labour Party, Jens Stoltenberg, (C) and others hold flowers at a memorial gathering in Oslo on July 29, 2011 AFP

12.25 Police have said they have now identified all the bodies from the massacre. The victims' names are still being released.

12.15 Some really moving scenes now of one of the memorial services. Eskil Pedersen, the leader of the Youth Labour Party who survived the attacks on Utoya, is speaking on the stage. Dozens of red flowers flank him on either side of the lecturn - I think they are roses.

QUOTE: It was only three months ago that our representatives were on this stage speaking for the Labour Party and today I am here again to honour their memories. It has been a difficult nights and days but your support has made it easier. Let me express my edeepest gratitude, thank you to the whole of the country and the countries who shared our grief.



12.15 We're now getting some comments from the mayor of Nesodden Christian Holm who is among the mourners.

We have to stand united and carry their dreams forward

12.05 The Norwegian flag is flying at half mast while the nation pays homage to the dead today.

12.00 There are two memorial services today, one at a mosque and the other held by Norwegian prime minister Jens Stoltenberg.

11.45 The Times's James Bone has interviewed Breivik's childhood best friend; a Muslim called Faisal Rafique. Mr Rafique, who runs a newsagent's in a propserous Oslo suburb, hasn't spoken to his old friend in 10 years but said he "couldn't imagine he would do that". The two were friends until Breivik's family moved away. They attended the same primary school and lived on the same housing estate in West Oslo.

In Breivik's manifesto he refers to Mr Rafique, now 30, and claimed he was an influence for his anti-Muslim thoughts.

He said: "Like most Norwegian Pakistanis he felt really torn between the Norwegian community and the Pakastani community.

"However, I was wrong when assuming that he would chose to follow my path and the Norwegian society."

11.15 English Defence League member Paul Ray, who calls himself "Lionheart" in his blog, has again admitted that he may have been Breivik's inspiration and could have unknowingly been the killer's mentor. Paul Ray fled to Malta since the attacks in fear of being arrested for inciting racial hatred.

Duncan Gardham also reveals that Mr Ray played host to Johnny "Mad Dog" Adair and he is friends with Nick Greger, a German known as "Nazi Nick" who describes himself as a convicted terrorist and former neo-Nazi leader.

10.55 Breivik used two cars to carry out the twin attacks: a Volkswagen Crafter van to carry the bomb and a Fiat Doblo minivan to make his getaway, reports John Bingham.

Last week, Brevik hired a Volkswagen Crafter van and a Fiat Doblo minivan, planning to use the VW to carry the bomb and the Fiat as his getaway vehicle.

According to sources, a roadside sensor at Ulven on the east side of Oslo registered the VW van passing into the city at 10pm on Wednesday, July 20. It is not known where it was parked.

The bomber took a train back to Rena, the village near his farmhouse, just after 1pm the next day and caught a taxi back to his home. The taxi driver remembers laughing and joking with him. At 11pm that night, the grey Fiat hired by the 32-year-old far-Right extremist was registered driving into Oslo to the east.

At 11am the next day, the Fiat was captured by a sensor at Skoyen, in west Oslo, a few minutes from the apartment of Breivik's mother, driving into the centre. Four hours later, the VW passed the same spot. It was parked at the entrance to the prime minister's office by 3.20pm, just two minutes before the bomb went off.

CCTV is said to show Breivik walking straight from the VW and getting into a car behind Marguerite Church.



10.30 We've just got the pictures of Breivik being transported in an armoured black Mercedes four-wheel drive. The side windows were covered but Breivik is still visible from the front.


Anders Behring Breivik (back seat) is taken by a police vehicle from Ila prison on July 29, 2011 and brought to the main police station in Oslo for further questioning AFP


Norwegian gunman Anders Behring Breivik (centre) sits in a police vehicle as he is escorted from Ila prison in Baerum REUTERS

9.54 Breivik has been transported to Oslo police headquarters for interrogation.

He was driven from Ila high security prison, where he is in solitary confinement, in an armoured car.

The self-confessed killer will face questions on "information received over the last few days - which is a lot", according to a spokesman.

9.53 Horrible to think that some young people will spend the next week going to dozens of funerals of their friends.

9.49 The first funerals for victims of the twin attacks will take place today, exactly a week after the rampage.

Bano Rashid, an 18-year-old woman originally from Kurdistan, will will be buried in Nesodden, near Oslo, at 1pm (noon BST). The funeral will be attended by Norway's Foreign Minister, Jonas Gahr Stoere.


Bano Rashid


Ismail Haji Ahmed, 19, will be buried at Hamar, in Norway's south-west, an hour later.

8.59 Richard Alleyne and John Bingham have the amazing story of Line Nersnaes, a senior civil servant, who had a miraculous escape after the bomb blast blew a 12-inch shard of wood through her skull.

Line Nersnaes, 50, a senior legal adviser for the Norwegian government, was sitting at her desk on the 11th floor when the car bomb went off under the building.

The force of the explosion shattered the wooden window sending a giant splinter flying through her chin and up through her skull.

Against all odds, the spike missed her brain and any vital organs and she only realised she had been hurt when she arrived on street level and noticed her head was hurting.

She was taken to hospital and after an operation to remove the splinter was back at work five days later.

8.58 Police released a further 24 victims' names last night bringing the number of confirmed dead to 41. The full victims list is here with their age when they were killed.

8.57 A founding member of the English Defence League on Thursday admitted for the first time that he may have been the inspiration behind Breivik's anti Muslim ideology. Duncan Gardham and James Orr report:

Paul Ray, a British blogger who calls himself “Lionheart” revealed that his opinions could have influenced Breivik’s Islamophobic diatribe, which the killer published online hours before he massacred 76 people.

Speaking from Malta, where he has fled fearing arrest for inciting racial hatred, Mr Ray conceded that he had been in direct contact with the 32-year-old gunman online.

In his manifesto Breivik described a character very similar to Mr Ray as a mentor, claiming to have met him at an event in London in 2002.

Mr Ray said on Thursday: “I am being implicated as his mentor. I definitely could have been his inspiration.

“It looks like that. He has given me a platform and a profile. But what he did was pure evil. I could never use what he has done to further my own beliefs.”

8.56 Anders Behring Breivik parked the van carrying a half-ton bomb a few feet from the foyer of the Norwegian prime minister's office – the equivalent of abandoning a vehicle on the steps of 10 Downing Street. John Bingham and Richard Alleyne report:

One of the first officers to arrive on the island of Utoya, described the moment the mass murderer was arrested, saying that Breivik put up no resistance.

Haavard Gaasbakk said the 32-year-old had abandoned his weapons and was standing waiting for them as they ran through the woods to apprehend him following a rampage that claimed the lives of at least 68 people.

However, Anders Snortheimsmoen, the commander of the Norwegian Delta team of special counter-terror police, admitted that his officers nearly shot Breivik dead, despite his passive stance, because they feared he was wearing an explosive belt. The decision was made by a "very narrow margin," he said

8.55 BST (9.55 Norway) Good morning and welcome back to our live blog, bringing you all the latest developments from the tragedy in Norway.

Previous coverage

Norway terrorist attacks: July 28
Norway terrorist attacks: July 27
Norway terrorist attacks: July 26
Norway terrorist attacks: July 25
Norway terrorist attacks: July 24
Norway terrorist attacks: July 23
Oslo explosion: July 22

***


Showing 25 of 6431 comments



AWoLsco
07/31/2011 10:33 PM Recommended by 1 person
Some interesting comment from the Independent, which unfortunately does not welcome comments from the General public.....unlike the Telegraph(not a paragon of virtue as it deletes and modifies comments, frequently but inconsistently)

"Critics point out that in the aftermath of the
humiliation inflicted on the country by the Nazi invasion and the
imposition of a fascist puppet government during the Second World War,
Norway has religiously adhered to an almost stifling form of consensus
politics in which the main parties tend to agree on everything. The upshot is a generous welfare state, excellent
schooling, high wages, high taxes and prices and considerable social
uniformity. Immigration, which has hit the 20 per cent mark in Oslo and
is largely confined to the city's eastern districts, may be high by
Norwegian standards but is insignificant when compared to areas in
Britain or other parts of continental Europe.
Political
commentators like Norway's Kjetil Kollsrud say that consensus politics
conducted Norwegian-style have resulted in a form of extreme
egalitarianism. "The fact is that in a system like this there is simply
not a great deal of room for people who don't fit it," he told The
Independent. Anders Breivik was clearly one of those who didn't."



________ lightf00t
Today 01:41 AM
"has religiously adhered to an almost stifling form of consensus
politics in which the main parties tend to agree on everything."
Sounds like Britain to me.


________________ AWoLsco
Today 02:41 AM Recommended by 2 people
Yes indeed. We're following the Norwegians....all too closely, but there is an awakening of sorts in the form of the EDL ,which is emotional, misdirected and unthinking, primitive even.
Something more organised and substantial is necessary.
How and when that will come to pass I do not know.
But all good Englishmen(the Scots have their own solution) should take comfort in the fact that if they really desire the demise of any government, it is easy to effect.
Remember the petrol strike under Blair.
That was people power.
You can take them out any time you so desire.
But you have to desire it.....and be utterly resolute, united and supportive of one another, irrespective of class and background.
In short you have to think of who you are, what you are, and what you are about.




AWoLsco
07/31/2011 03:26 PM Recommended by 2 people
Ode to Noroway, to Noroway, to Noroway o'er the faem

The foreign red rose
is their favourite flower,
for it shows to all who is in power,
A land of fjord and mountain,
a land of dupes and dummies,
of little boys and girls, so tame,
in mind, still with their mummies.
The land is red and viking, only by reputation,
Did you ever behold such a parcel of rogues
in a well-endowed little nation?
There is little strife,
but corruption is rife,
Most seem contented,
but some are demented
A curious place for sure,
Some go there for riches,
I think I'd rather be poor.




mattbayleaf
07/31/2011 12:41 PM Recommended by 6 people
What Anders Breivik did was tragic and wrong because he killed innocent people but this does not mean that there is not a problem with Labour, migration, and multiculturalism in Norway and England and the rest of Europe. He could be suffering from a narcissistic personality disorder and form of autism given the lack of empathy for the victims, possibly a variant of Savant syndrome. It may not be what you want to hear, but the majority of the electorate of England have voted no to further migration at two general elections and have rejected the ideology of multiculturalism. This does not mean abandoning the idea of having respect for diversity. It means that the levels of migration should be reduced in a significant way. We're supposed to be living in a democracy. The voice of the people should be heard on the issue. The most effective way to counter terrorism from militant Islamic extremists and Fascist groups is to reduce the levels of migration in a significant way. This should have happened years ago. It was a mistake to drag the wooden horse into the city.




escapedroger
07/30/2011 11:05 PM Recommended by 3 people
I just read the sensational story on DT about the use of UK suppliers by the Norwegian murderer, I suppose you hope the supplier of the drill will be arrested under British anti-terror legislation.


________ benjani
07/31/2011 03:03 AM Recommended by 3 people
becoming more apparent by the day that uk sis were involved, and that anders was a usefull idiot.
national conservatism has been the main target .
reccruited by a new knights templar?
more like recruited by mi6.
discredit right wing groups across E.U just as they start to gain ground.
lepen major ontender for french presidency? nuff sais!




kevinsmith
07/30/2011 09:26 PM Recommended by 5 people
It seems you're not allowed to suggest any link to Labour's immigration policy.




kevinsmith
07/30/2011 05:17 PM Recommended by 4 people
should have been averted.




Mark Anthony
07/30/2011 11:57 AM Recommended by 3 people
http://www.tellthechildrenthet...



________ lightf00t
07/30/2011 01:49 PM Recommended by 9 people
Interesting site.

I've always wondered why ragheads and lefties ally so closely with each other. Now I know. It's because they both want to take over the world.

The problem for the Left is, what are they going to do when there are more muzzies than them? Muslims aren't interested in communism or capitalism, they just want everyone to be muslim.

And if they don't tow the line...




kej
07/30/2011 10:01 AM Recommended by 2 people
Any news on the accomplice. Or will it get "disappeared" like the news story about the two Pakistani men shot dead by the anti-terror squad at Canary Warf on the day of the london bombings, after the bombs went off?

Operational mishap?

DT deleted the first paragraph of this post when I posted it yesterday so all that is left is "Operational mishap". Isn't that ironic?




cartimandua
07/30/2011 06:40 AM
In China they had a number of attacks on nurseries. Infants are celebrities in China. Norway made celebrities of those children and then they failed to protect them from an envious attack.




orwashepushed
07/29/2011 11:28 PM Recommended by 6 people
Nationalism to a muslim economic migrant is their greatest fear. It must be undermined at any price. Predominantly it is a slow eroding cancer drawn out on a day to day basis. They appear to have their 'heroes' in the form of blockheaded, brainwashed clowns with a caveman mentality to whom life and indeed their own is cheap. The muslim propergander machine are a relentless group of "professional victims" who prey on any form of national identity with orchestrated responses designed to trigger the stoneaged brains of their fanatical masses... What they are seeing here in the form of Breivik is their counterpart in the mirror although I'd doubt a 'cartoon' would have incensed him... or maybe it did.




denny
07/29/2011 11:00 PM Recommended by 5 people
The action of Breivik is an evil one. One should learn from it not to use violence against others even if he has a reason to do so. Breivik thought he had a reason and he used powerful weapons against his victims who had no chance against him. We all know that Breivik is an evil.
But on a large scale there are governments acting the same way - Russia attacking Afghanistan in 1980, America attacking Iraq in 2003 where 1 million mostly innocent people were killed - because the attackers thought they had a reason. Powers can defend their actions by presenting their reasons in media in a powerful way. But any reason can only be a reason of someone's (sick) mind. Everybody can surely find more examples where Breivik way is used to implement their reasons.
If we do not take a leason from this, we will keep killing each other - for a reason.



________ Benedict Carter
07/29/2011 11:06 PM Recommended by 9 people
Eh? 5 million? Which lying anti-US rag did you lift that one from?

As to "evil" ....

His ACT (taking life) was evil in moral terms, of course. That does not change even if he was seeking through that act a greater good. An evil act is always an evil act and cannot be made good.

HOWEVER in this resides yet another sin of the cultural Marxists running our poor Europe: they will increasingly force ordinarily decent and law-abiding folk to commit evil acts for their very survival.

The true evil is of these 1970's/80's Marxist student politicians, including Stoltenberg there in Norway, and closer to home our very own Bliar and Gordoom McScum, along with all their cohorts.

A lamp-post isn't good enough for them.




albemarle
07/29/2011 10:55 PM Recommended by 12 people
The two Norwegian commenters on this thread mentioned Groruddalen, Norway in their exchange and, on googling it, I found this article translated into English from Aftenposten, a major Norwegian newspaper on Gates of Vienna which deals with the issue of Islamisation of Europe:

http://gatesofvienna.blogspot....

It's an interview with a Norwegian kindergarten teacher who is 'migrating' with his family from Groruddalen where he lived all his life and he speaks of the problems with the Moslems there: few speak the language, "We Norwegians must adjust to normas that feel completely foreign to us who have a Western lifestyle and mindset", blond girls are bullied and dye their hair black to avoid insults, children are beaten if they bring salami for school lunch, "it is especially not okay to be gay at the school, nor atheist and especially not Jewish"... This is always referred to in msm as 'white flight,' an attempt to posit it as a form of racism by the natives against 'immigrants' when it actually reads as a form of ethnic cleansing of the ethnic majority by an ethnic minority.

(A Norwegian politician mentioned this fact of Norwegian girls needing to dye their hair to avoid harassment and the AUF --- the youth group at this camp where the massacre occurred --- called for him to be charged for making such a statement of fact).


________ lightf00t
07/29/2011 10:59 PM
albemarle

Didn't you know that it's just a Daily Mail scare story?




lightf00t
07/29/2011 10:39 PM Recommended by 1 person
Did some one say Anders listened to music while he was going postal?

I would have thought The Very Best of Rammstein would be the obvious choice.



________ bill_mason_in_the_trenches
07/29/2011 10:41 PM
It was the x factor tune. The one from Lord of the rings when they have a battle. Powrful little number it is. Composed by a Brit I believe.


________________ lightf00t
07/29/2011 10:42 PM Recommended by 1 person
I'm going to download it now. Thanks Bill.

And thanks for your services during the war. Hopefully there a lot more good British patriots like you still out there.


________________ millyrsv4
07/30/2011 01:38 AMLux Æterna (song)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

It's one of my favourites themes Lux Aeterna By Clint Mansell Lux Aeterna translates "the eternal light"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Used for film Requiem for a Dream
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Used for Lord of the Rings trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...


________________ lightf00t
07/30/2011 01:45 AM
millyrsv4

I can understand why he would choose to listen to it. Really gets the adrenaline pumping!


________________ millyrsv4
07/30/2011 01:58 AMIt is a very potent musical score lightfOOt. Tubers have put it to Terminator film clips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...



RupertTiger
07/29/2011 10:25 PM
What I am here hoping to know from all you intensely critical folk all rightly determined to know the motives of Breivik and the likely consequences


______________

Các anh chị có ý kiến, phê bình gì qua bài tường thuật "Norway shootings: live" và 25 ý kiến phê bình của đọc giả trong số "6431 comments" ?

Các anh chị nghĩ thế nào về đọan "QUOTATION" :

_ "Anders Behring Breivik could have received military training at a secret paramilitary base in Belarus, according to a Belarusian opposition politician.

Breivik visited Belarus several times. This spring, as part of preparations for the double attack, he visited Minsk, where he participated in training at a secret paramilitary base, said Mikhail Resjetnikov, leader of the opposition Patriot Party, told the newspaper.

According to Resjetnikov, Breivik may have been involved in "sabotage-terrorist exercises" under the direction of a former officer in the security services in Belarus. He could have used a false passport to enter the country.

Belarus' KGB gave him the code name Viking. Rumour has it that he also had a girlfriend in Belarus, said Resjetnikov."


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