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Britain needs wholesale rethink of Libya war says Sir Menzies Campbell
Britain must undertake a "wholesale re-examination" of its involvement in the Nato conflict in Libya after the murder of the leader of the anti-Gaddafi forces, former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell has said.
Sir Menzies Campbell says the 'assassination' of General Abdel Fattah Younes, the rebels' military commander, should spark a complete review of Britain's role in Libya Photo: IAN JONES
By Christopher Hope
9:30PM BST 31 Jul 2011
7 Comments
The call came as Liam Fox, the Defence Secretary, appeared to admit Nato forces were powerless to depose Col Muammar Gaddafi until the Libyan leader's own henchmen turned on him.
The death of General Abdel Fattah Younes, the rebels' military commander, on Friday was blamed on Islamist-linked militia within the opposition forces.
Rebel minister Ali Tarhouni said Gen Younes, who defected to the rebels in February after serving in the Libyan leadership since 1969, was killed by members of the Obaida Ibn Jarrah Brigade.
Further splits between the rebels were evident yesterday when clashes between rival rebel factions left four people dead in Benghazi, their stronghold.
One group of rebels reportedly overran the base of another rogue faction suspected of breaking pro-Gaddafi forces out of a prison.
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Sir Menzies, the party's former foreign affairs spokesman, said the "assassination" of Younes should spark a complete review of Britain's role in Libya.
"This assassination now provides an opportunity and a spur for a wholesale re-examination of policy."
There was an opportunity now, he said, for Britain to think about "the end-game" of the conflict in Libya.
He said: "We know that the United States has not taken a full part, we know that in France and Italy there are differing views.
"I think if we are going to get this right we have to be clearer about defining what success would amount to. If you like – what the end-game is."
The key would be how Col Gaddafi would be treated if he was overthrown. Allowing him to remain in Tripoli under house arrest would risk seeing him treated an "icon".
Sir Menzies was speaking as Dr Fox, the Defence secretary, flew to the United States for talks with Leon Panetta, his American counterpart in the Obama administration.
Dr Fox said in an interview that "the key to the Libyan resolution" was not in the hands of Nato. Instead it was key for Gaddafi's supporters to accept that he was a "busted flush".
He told BBC Radio Four's World This Weekend programme: "The key to the Libyan resolution will be whether or not the close circle around Col Gaddafi recognise that there is no point in investing in him, he is a busted flush, and that he will sooner or later have to leave power."
He added: "When the penny drops with them, that is inevitable then you are likely to see the sort of change in the political momentum that we have been looking for."
Dr Fox conceded the rebels will "always had limited capacity on the ground", although "they are being assisted in terms of communications and their logistics and making the best use of the equipment that they had".
Dr Fox added that other European members of Nato had to show greater commitment to the Libyan conflict.
He said: "Some European countries will need to ask themselves whether they are genuinely committed to Nato or whether they regard it as an a la carte menu. The latter is unacceptable."
Britain is part of the Coalition force which has been conducting operations in Libya since March under a United Nations mandate which has authorised military action in Libya to protect local people.
Dr Fox added that other European nations which were not supporting the Nato action could not afford to be complacent and assume that the US would always be an ally.
He said: "The United States has a major commitment in Afghanistan – much bigger than any European country – and it has still got an engagement in Iraq, there are also very worried about the situation in the Gulf and have a lot of military assets there in case there is further trouble.
"Other European countries and members of Nato will have to recognise that they cannot get the insurance policy and have other people pay the premiums."
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Showing 7 comments
Clothcap
11 minutes ago
Benghazi insurgency R.I.P. 1st August 2011.
Details - my.telegraph.co.uk/clothcap
MabroukLibya
Today 01:28 AM Recommended by 2 people
Yesterday 31/07/2011 the rebels in Benghazi killed over 100 people belong to the tribe of Werfla in Benghazi. This tribe sent its boys to fight with the rebels against the Libyan army in El-Brega-Libya.
An islamic militia killed the rebels comander Gen: Yunes and his companions who were killed three days ago. One of these companions belongs to this tribe, so the tribe raised its voice to Criticizes the militia and NTC.
You will hear these news sooner or later!!!
The question is who are those backed by the west and Nato?
beegdawg007
Today 12:20 AM
Agree... this is not going at all like movie wars go. We have dropped the bombs and clearly know that Kaddaffi is the bad guy. This program should soon end with Mommar looking out the window as a Cruise missile comes screaming in toward his bulging eyes. The End! That is how this war was suppose to go! After three months, I think it is time that move onto a new reality-documentary! This one has become boring.
James Padgett
07/31/2011 11:58 PM Recommended by 14 people
Dr. Liam Fox should recognize that the QUICKEST and BEST and WISEST soloution to this intervention in Libya - is to immediately STOP it and get out!!! Like the intervention in Iraq, it was done with no research - which would have revealed the deep division among the Libyan people concerning Gaddafi. Studies of the sizes and allegiances of LIbya's 148 tribes indicate that over 60 percent of Libyans support Gaddafi. NATO had - and has - no right to violate a nation's sovereignty - to remove a regime when the majority of the naiton's population support it. Seems to me that democracy means RULE BY THE PEOPLE, not rule by the opinion of OTHER NATIONS. May the governmental branches in the UK, USA, and France have the gonads and wisdom to stop immediately this stupid and misguided and criminal interventiion.
mar23
07/31/2011 11:13 PM Recommended by 12 people
Well,at least the "HEADING" of this article got off on the right track. for a minute there I thought that this guy wanted to stop the insanity in Libya.
but hold up! wait a minute! stop the press! he started talking that same crap that the Dannat dude over there is talking. even after admitting that "One group of rebels reportedly overran the base of another rogue faction suspected of breaking pro-Gaddafi forces out of a prison", this new fool from england STILL wants her Majesties soldiers (or whatever it is that you call it over there) to go all in and try to remove gadaffi!
this guy is either the smartest person on the planet and knows something that the rest of the world dosesnt know,or he is something else.
o.k,my money is on SOMETHING ELSE! and to make matters worse Al-Jazeera has just repoted that rebel (not making this up) BRIGADES are now fighting AGAINST EACH OTHER!!
the rebel leader is claiming that gadaffi loyalist have infiltrated entire brigades in BENGHAZI and now are fighting against his rebels.
I dont believe the rebel leader for a moment, not even a millisecond. this is the same liar who claimed that "gadaffi's men killed general Younes" only to have the truth be exposed that HIS own secret AL-QAEDA sect had riddled him with bullets and burned his body!
what is wrong with the so called leaders of england? there will be no face saving victory for the uniion jack this time around and rightfully so.
america is just as guilty,but at least the liars over here are NOT running to the press as your elected officials are making one stupid comment after the next.
hey,maybe thats the plan for obama? let you schleps from england take the fall for this fiasco? I can hear him now.
"it was england,not the US who said that nato should have armed the rebels" "and that Menzies dude HIMSELF even said that " britain needs a wholesale rethink on Libya"
barack would then say "what he meant was for ENGLAND to put boots on the ground" now menzies didnt say or allude to that,but barack is a habitual liar,so I wouldnt put it past him to tell that lie anyway.
its time for the insanity to stop and admit defeat folks. the rebels have turned on each other and are now KILLING each other. its just a matter of time before there is an all out civil war pitting the rebels,against the REBELS!
one thing for sure is that the credibility of nato (never had any with me) is totally destroyed! the bigots from nato will NEVER be allowed to invade other countries ever again.
the greed and bigotry of america,england and the EU has rendered your militaries obsolete now FOREVER! no UN nation will ever vote with nato again,and if nato attacks any nation unprovoked your countries will be bombed back into the stoneage.
the thieves from nato have now made Amadinajhad look like the "Patron saint of democracy" and mugabe (I always knew he was telling the truth) is now the biggest hero in the history of africa.
Ahkenaton? where has he been lately? Mandela? please,all he did was go to prison for crimes that he didnt commit. we have a bunch of black mandela's over here in apartheid america,mexican ones too.
but mugabe,he was right all along when he said that england was attempting to enforce regime change against him also just to steal his peoples land again.
now you folks in england dont have to agree with anything that I have just posted. but I am sure the people in Tripoli agree with me.
but even you all cannot agree with this Menzies moron.
scottishman
07/31/2011 11:08 PM Recommended by 4 people
Cameron is a narcissist, he was bemused by the fact that even
with Murdoch's support and Ashcroft's millions he did not do
better in the 2010 election, a Tony Blair landslide it was not.
He thought that a quick campaign in Libya would boost his
popularity and grateful Libyans would spend lots of oil cash
in the UK.
It has all gone horribly wrong, the Americans, stung by
the UK's reduction of their armed forces, have become
lukewarm in their miltary support. The campaign in Libya
has dragged on too long and the frustrated rebels are
descending into infighting.
Mr Cameron is on holiday.
ricky62
07/31/2011 10:59 PM Recommended by 9 people
The best way for us is leave Libya for the Libyans to sort out. Defeating Qaddafi is not likely to happen as long as NATO keeps bombing the country as this this action is turning his one time opponents into reluctant supporters.
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Libya militants 'constrained' says Liam Fox
Defence secretary Liam Fox says Gaddafi will fall from power only when members of inner circle decide
Nicholas Watt, chief political correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 31 July 2011 18.45 BST
Article history
Defence secretary Liam Fox said Muammar Gaddafi will fall from power only when members of his inner circle decide the Libyan leader is a 'busted flush'. Photograph: David Jones/PA
Liam Fox, the defence secretary, said today that Muammar Gaddafi will fall from power only when members of his inner circle decide the Libyan leader is a "busted flush".
In a sign of how Britain believes that rebel forces will play only a limited role in deciding the future of Libya, the defence secretary said their progress had been slow.
Speaking on Radio 4's The World This Weekend, as he prepared to fly to Washington for talks with his US counterpart Leon Panetta, Fox said: "The key for the Libyan resolution will be whether or not the close circle around colonel Gaddafi realise there's no point in investing in him: he's a busted flush he will sooner or later have to leave power. When the penny drops with them that that's inevitable, then you're likely to see the sort of change, the political momentum, that we've been looking for."
The defence secretary said that rebel forces were constrained. "They have always had limited capacity on the ground. They're being assisted in terms of communications, in terms of logistics, they may be getting some equipment from elsewhere but they will still have a very limited ground potential."
Fox said the rebels were making slow progress. "There continues to be progress. If you look at where the opposition forces have made progress – yes, it has been slow, but we've prevented the wholesale slaughter of the population. If other countries believe there is a need for a ground force – I don't think the chances of securing a resolution are even remotely possible."
The defence secretary declined to be drawn on which group may been responsible for the assassination of Gaddafi's former interior minister, General Abdel Fatah Younis, who defected to become the rebels' military leader. "It's not yet clear who carried out the killing and there are claims and counter-claims it will be at least several days until we know exactly what the situation was. There has always been a mixture of people who make up the opposition forces in Libya – hardly surprising given the history of the country and it would be for the Libyans themselves to sort out exactly how any power structure develops post-Gaddafi."
Sir Menzies Campbell, the former leader of the Liberal Democrats, said the killing raised questions about the stability of the National Transitional Council and showed the need for a "wholesale" review of policy towards Libya.
He told Sky News: "The assassination has thrown into fairly sharp focus the whole question of the transitional national council. What kind of government if for example, it ever got to Tripoli. I also think that claims of success have always got to be taken with a certain amount of scepticism because it's not about just taking ground temporarily its taking it permanently. I've been saying I think we should take this period for a wholesale examination of policy.
"I supported the military action – I continue to support the British government's involvement but I think we have to have a pretty clearer view about what the NTC would be like were they ever to get to Tripoli."
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Europe's Right Wing: A Nation-By-Nation Guide to Political Parties and Extremist Groups
Some claim Anders Breivik was a lone wolf, a madman, but others see in his manifesto the signs of an ideology that has spreading across Europe
Norway
By Sonia Van Gilder Cooke Friday, July 29, 2011
Norwegian leader of the Fremskrittspartiet or Progress party, Siv Jensen (2nd R), and other Ministers attend a mass at the Domkirken Church in Oslo on July 24, 2011, for victims of the July 22 terrorist attacks.
Odd Andersen / AFP / Getty Images
On the Ballot
Party: Progress Party
Leader: Siv Jensen
Key issues: Immigration, free market, law and order
Seats in parliament: 41/169
The Progress Party, which accused attacker Anders Behring Breivik once supported, won 22.9% of the vote in the 2009 election, the best result in the party's 38-year history. The second-largest party in parliament since 2005, it has historically been shunned by other parties. But in recent years, its growing popularity has moved the opposition Conservative Party to say it would consider working with the Progress Party in a coalition government.
On the Fringe
Vigrid
Founded in 1988, the group — described by anti-fascist organization Searchlight as a "Nazi psycho sect" — uses ancient Norse and puts its members through paintball training. In 2009, the group registered as a political party and participated in the parliamentary election, but received only 0.007% of the vote.
BootsBoys
Neo-Nazi group founded in 1987. In 2002, two members of the group were convicted of the murder of 15-year-old Benjamin Hermansen, the son of a black Ghanaian father and white Norwegian mother. The stabbing of Hermansen in Oslo, regarded as Norway's first race-related murder, triggered mass protests in the capital.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2085728_2085727_2085712,00.html #ixzz1TdA1TRbk
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_ "Some claim Anders Breivik was a lone wolf, a madman, but others see in his manifesto the signs of an ideology that has spreading across Europe"
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Norway suspect was considering other targets
IAN MacDOUGALL,, KARL RITTER,
Updated 05:48 a.m., Saturday, July 30, 2011
FILE - This photo combo shows the victims who were killed in the July 22, 2011 terror attacks in Oslo and on Utoya island in Norway. From left, Andreas Edvardsen, 19, from Sarpsborg, Norway, Rune Havdal (43) from Oevre Eiker, Norway, Fredrik Lund Schjetne, 18, from Eidsvoll, Norway, Carina Borgund, 18, from Oslo, Norway, Tina Iversen Sukuvara, 18, from Vadsoe, Norway, Mona Abdinur, 18, from Oslo, Norway. Photo: File / AP
OSLO, Norway (AP) — The anti-Muslim extremist who confessed to a bombing and youth camp massacre that killed 77 people in Norway has told investigators he also considered attacking other targets linked to the government or the prime minister's Labor Party, police said Saturday.
During a 10-hour questioning session on Friday, Anders Behring Breivik asked interrogators how many people he had killed in the July 22 attacks, and "showed no emotion" when they told him, police attorney Paal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby told reporters in Oslo.
The 32-year-old Norwegian has confessed to setting off a car bomb that killed eight people in downtown Oslo and then gunning down scores of youth from the left-leaning Labor Party at their annual retreat on an island northwest of the capital. Sixy-nine of them died.
Kraby said Breivik had considered other possible targets to attack as he prepared what Norway's Police Security Service has described as a meticulously prepared by a "lone-wolf" attacker.
"The other targets were government and Labor Party targets," Kraby said.
He declined to confirm a report in Norwegian tabloid VG saying Breivik had described the Royal Palace and the Labor Party's head office as potential targets. The paper did not cite its sources.
"They were targets that one would say are natural for terror attacks," Kraby told reporters.
Breivik released a 1,500-page manifesto before the attacks in which he ranted against Muslims and a left-wing political elite he claims is destroying Europe's cultural heritage by allowing unfettered immigration.
Norwegian authorities say he wasn't in their database of right-wing extremists and appears to have prepared his attacks for years, without telling anyone, even his friends and family. They haven't found anything to support his claims of being part of a militant network of modern-day crusaders plotting a series of coups d'etat across Europe.
Norway started burying the dead on Friday and Cabinet ministers have honored the victims in tearful memorial services in both churches and mosques. Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg has called for unity across ethnic and religious lines in face of the greatest tragedy Norway has faced in peacetime.
Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Norway-suspect-was-considering-other-targets-1654314.php#ixzz1TasUoiDu
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Norway attacks suspect showed "no emotion" over 77 dead
Sapa-dpa | 30 July, 2011 09:16
A woman stands on the shore in front of Utoeya island, northwest of Oslo.
Image by: FABRIZIO BENSCH / REUTERS
The man suspected in last week's twin terrorist attacks showed "no emotion" when police told him they claimed 77 lives, his attorney said Saturday.
Suspect Anders Behring Breivik was Friday informed of the death toll in the July 22 attacks when he was brought to police headquarters for an interview, attorney Geir Lippestad told Oslo daily VG.
During the interview Breivik asked police about the death toll.
"I couldn't see any reaction at all," Lippestad said of Breivik's reaction. "I could not see a smile and I could not see signs of remorse," he added.
The attorney earlier said that during his meetings with Breivik he had avoided mentioning the death toll, stating only that the tally was high.
Breivik was remanded in custody Monday, charged with the July 22 bombing in the capital Oslo that killed eight people, and the subsequent shooting spree on nearby Utoya island that killed 69.
Other alleged targets were the royal palace and the Labour Party headquarters in Oslo, police sources were quoted as telling VG.
The palace was selected for its symbolic role, and Breivik had not specifically targeted the royal family , the report said.
Lippsetad on Friday told daily Aftenposten that his client had planned two other attacks but did not offer specifics.
Oslo police chief of staff Johan Fredriksen told reporters Friday that 10 locations had been checked without any signs of explosives.
Friday's interview at police headquarters focused on reviewing the transcript from Breivik's first interview, which ran to around 50 pages.
According to his attorney a new interview is due next week. Police prosecutor Pal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby on Friday said that "for security reasons" police would not offer details of when future interviews with Breivik would be held.
The Norwegian security service PST late Friday issued a statement on the attacks stating they "did not constitute a heightened threat from known right-wing or left-extremist groups in Norway."
It said copy-cat crimes were a potential risk, but that so far it appeared that "the perpetrator most likely planned and carried out his attacks alone."
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Anders Behring Breivik attacks: first funerals take place in Norway
Teenage victims laid to rest as police seek to question English Defence League member over links to killer
Helen Pidd in Oslo
guardian.co.uk, Friday 29 July 2011 19.07 BST
Article history
A friend of Bano Rashid, one of the victims of the massacre on Utøya, carries her portrait at the funeral at Nesodden. Photograph: Odd Andersen/AFP/Getty Images
The first funerals for victims of the terror attacks in Norway last week have taken place as Oslo detectives prepare to interview a member of the English Defence League about his links to the perpetrator.
On Friday night police said that the death toll had risen to 77 from 76 as they released the full list of the dead. Eight of the victims were killed by the bomb attack by Anders Behring Breivik in Oslo's government district and 69 died after he shot them at a political youth camp on the island of Utøya. No explanation was given for the increase.
At a memorial service in the assembly hall of the People's House, a community centre for Norway's labour movement, the prime minister, Jens Stoltenberg, reiterated his message for the attacks to lead to unity rather than fear.
After the ceremony he said: "I think 22 July will be a very strong symbol of the Norwegian people's wish to be united in our fight against violence, and will be a symbol of how the nation can answer with love."
Among the dead was Bano Rashid, an 18-year-old Kurdish Muslim immigrant from Iraq, who on Friday was the first victim to be laid to rest since the atrocities on 22 July. As her friends sobbed at her funeral in the Nesodden church outside the capital, Breivik was questioned for the second time by detectives following his admission that he had carried out the attacks but was not guilty of terrorism charges because he is in a "state of war".
The funeral of another victim, Ismail Haji Ahmed, 19, took place in the town of Hamar.
At least one Briton will be questioned in relation to the attacks, a Norwegian police lawyer said on Friday. Pal-Fredrik Hjort Kraby revealed that officers would be contacting Paul Ray, an activist with the English Defence League who blogs under the name Lionheart.
In an interview with a Norwegian newspaper, Ray allegedly admitted his opinions could have influenced Breivik's Islamophobic diatribe, which the killer published online hours before he massacred 76 people. Speaking from Malta, where he has fled fearing arrest for inciting racial hatred, Ray told Dagbladet that he had been in direct contact with the 32-year-old gunman online.
Detectives are also investigating claims made in the Russian media that Breivik had been given training in "military sabotage operations" in Minsk, Belarus, by a former KGB agent, Kraby confirmed.
Nonetheless, investigators continue to believe Breivik acted alone, after years of meticulous planning, and have not found anything to support his claims that he is part of an anti-Muslim militant network plotting a series of coups across Europe.
Kraby also told reporters that Breivik has so far refused to be photographed by police or speak to a forensic psychiatrist.
Since the massacre, questions have persisted about whether authorities had underestimated extremist dangers in Norway. The country's security service is working on a fresh evaluation of the threat posed by extremists, but many Norwegians fear they will lose their trusting society if new measures are introduced.
Øystein Mæland, the chief of police who is in charge of the Oslo investigation, told a press conference on Friday: "We do not want barbed wire, roadblocks and weapons as part of everyday life in Norway."
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Các anh chị có suy nghĩ, ý kiến gì qua bài viết "Anders Behring Breivik attacks: first funerals take place in Norway" ?
Các anh chị có nghĩ rằng tên khủng bố sát nhân đã "biết" và "biết rất rõ" Na Uy là một quốc gia tự do, có giết người thì cũng chỉ ở tù tối đa có 21 năm !
Một kẻ đã cố ý tàn sát gần trăm mạng người, vẫn còn có cái quyền "từ chối" cảnh sát chụp hình : "Kraby also told reporters that Breivik has so far refused to be photographed by police ... ".
Thiển nghĩ giới có thẩm quyền của Na Uy nên đưa hình tên khủng bố lên cho cả thế giới biết "bộ mặt người" của hắn sau khi giết gần 100 mạng người trông có giống ác quỷ ?
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___________
CSVN là TỘI ÁC
Bao che, dung dưỡng TỘI ÁC là đồng lõa với TỘI ÁC
Cóc nhái ểnh ương trương hợp khúc
Tắc kè rắn lục giục hòa âm
Chồn chân ngựa hí hợp thanh
Tó đầu bò rống giải banh phường tuồng
"Trí đủ" đang mộng chập chờn
"Sĩ đờ" thao thức mông mênh "tự tình"
Côn trùng rên rỉ "yêu tinh"
"Hận thù xóa bỏ" đồng minh giặc hồ
Côn trùng rên rỉ "yêu thương"
"Hận thù xóa bỏ" đồng mương giặc hồ .
"Đáp lời sông núi" tô hô
"Chống tàu xâm lược" sạch mồ Việt gian (*)
Giặc cướp nước, giặc giết dân
Nuôi giặc BÁN NƯỚC tự thân NHỤC HÈN (**)
Trăm năm bia đá thì mòn
Ngàn năm bia miệng vẫn còn trơ trơ .
(Soi Dòng Sông Chữ Thấy Mù Tâm .. )
(*) bè lũ phản quốc cướp nước diệt chủng bán nước đảng cộng sản Việt Nam, là đại tội đồ của dân tộc VN, "lịch sử Ô NHỤC" của đảng csVN sẽ đời đời lưu xú trong Dòng Sử Việt .
(**) Những kẻ nào chủ trương rửa sạch tội ác của csVN là ĐỒNG LÕA với lũ thú vật phản quốc bán nước Việt cộng này .
Chân thành cám ơn Quý Anh Chị ghé thăm "conbenho Nguyễn Hoài Trang Blog"
Xin được lắng nghe ý kiến chia sẻ của Quý Anh Chị trực tiếp tại Diễn Đàn Paltalk: 1Latdo Tapdoan Vietgian CSVN Phanquoc Bannuoc .
Kính chúc Sức Khỏe Quý Anh Chị .
conbenho
Tiểu Muội quantu
Nguyễn Hoài Trang
30072011
___________
CSVN là TỘI ÁC
Bao che, dung dưỡng TỘI ÁC là đồng lõa với TỘI ÁC
Abdul Fatah Younis ambush killing blamed on pro-Gaddafi forces
Libyan rebel army leader's death announced at chaotic late-night press conference in Benghazi
Chris Stephen in Misrata
The Guardian, Friday 29 July 2011
Article history
Abdul Fatah Younis, former interior minister in the Gaddafi regime, has been branded 'a hero of the revolution' for defecting to the rebel cause. Photograph: Altaf Qadri/AP
The Libyan rebels' chief of army staff, Abdel Fatah Younis, has been killed in an assassination by pro-Gaddafi agents, according to the rebel authorities.
The president of the ruling National Transitional Council, Abdul Mustafa Jalil, made the dramatic announcement of the death of Younis at a chaotic late-night press conference at a hotel in Benghazi.
He told reporters that Younis had been called back from the frontline near Brega to Benghazi for questioning on the progress of the campaign, and suggested he had been killed by "pro-Gaddafi" forces on the route early in the morning.
But questions remain over the lack of detail over how Younis died or who killed him. The general usually travels inside an armoured car in a multi-vehicle convoy with 30 armed guards, posing problems for any potential assassination team.
Jalil said two senior rebel officers were killed alongside Younis, and demanded that what he called pro-Gaddafi elements he said were operating in Benghazi surrender or join the rebel forces.
The shock announcement came after a day of heated speculation that Younis had been arrested on the orders of Jalil. Younis was Gaddafi's former interior minister until he dramatically changed sides to join the revolution in February.
The rumours were still swirling late on Thursday night, with armed men declaring their support for Younis appearing on the streets of Benghazi, claiming they would use force to free him from NTC custody.
Soldiers loyal to Jalil from the 17 Brigade, Benghazi's elite unit, had surrounded Younis's house in the late afternoon.
Then in the evening, Jalil said at the press conference that "with regret" he had to announce the death of general Younis. Jalil called him "one of the heroes of the 17th of February revolution".
Minutes later, gunfire broke out in the street outside the Benghazi hotel where the announcement was made, with machine gun bullets smashing windows.
The press conference, which ended abruptly with the NTC president refusing to take questions, failed to explain how the general could have been ambushed in a highly guarded convoy.
Younis has been a controversial figure as head of the rebel forces because – until the uprising – he was Muammar Gaddafi's Interior Minister, one of his most trusted officials and confidants. The general's friendship with Gaddafi dated from 1969 when he joined a group of fresh-faced army officers in deposing Libya's king.
But when riots came to the streets of Benghazi in February, he dramatically switched sides, joining the rebels and bringing the city's interior ministry military brigade with him.
That brigade was crucial in helping the under-armed rebels fight off the attacks by regime forces in the first days of the fighting, and command of this unit is believed to have been the key to the decision of rebel leaders in appointing him army commander.
But his tenure as commander was stormy: he reportedly nearly came to blows with his rival for the army command, Klalifa Hefter, during a meeting in late March.
For much of that month both men claimed to be in command of the ragtag rebel forces as they raced west towards Tripoli, only to be thrown back towards Benghazi in chaos and confusion.
By April, Younis had won the political battle inside the National Transitional Council and was confirmed as chief of staff but he failed to use his new position to bring victory on the battlefield.
Since April, the frontline has remained largely in stalemate, despite heavy Nato bombing of government forces around the key oil town of Brega.
Younis launched an attack on Brega in June, only to see it beaten back.
Two weeks ago, aided by some of the heaviest Nato tactical bombing of the war, he tried again, with a three-pronged attack on the town.
Rebel military spokesmen repeatedly insisted that Brega was on the point of falling but, after a fortnight of fighting, the town remains in government hands.
The rebels in the besieged city of Misrata have conspicuously refused to accept orders from Younis, to the extent of insisting that their fighters are not part of the Benghazi-controlled National Army.
Many rebels were shocked by the news of the killing. "We respect him because he left Gaddafi; when he left a lot of colonels saw what Younis did and they defected also," said Farouk Ben Ahmeda, a rebel fighter in Misrata.
But few think that his military skills will be irreplaceable.
"I don't think that he was really a professional soldier; he didn't command the soldiers well," said Ben Ahmeda.
The assassination will cause embarrassment and concern for the Foreign Office in the UK, as it comes just a day after the foreign secretary, William Hague, said that Britain would recognise the NTC as the legitimate government of Libya and expelling Gaddafi's diplomats.
London had hoped that after months of work, the NTC was now fit to govern. Unless Jalil can provide a full and public account of the assassination and the circumstances around it, that opinion may need to be revised.
Norway terror attack exposes deeper anger over immigration
The admitted attacker behind last week's bombing and shooting spree derided immigration and multiculturalism. Experts say his beliefs are surprisingly common in Norway.
A graffiti is seen at the closed Skytterkollen shooting range on Thursday, where Norwegian gunman Anders Behring Breivik used to train. Breivik, a far-right zealot whose bomb attack and shooting spree killed 76 people last Friday, has been charged under the terrorism act, which carries a maximum penalty of 21 years in jail, but the authorities are considering whether to charge him with crimes against humanity.
Wolfgang Rattay/Reuters
By Frank Radosevich, Correspondent / July 28, 2011
Oslo, Norway
Last week's Oslo terrorist attacks are raising delicate questions of immigration and integration here after the admitted attacker cited anti-Muslim views as motivating the assaults.
A country of less than 5 million people, Norway has seen its once homogeneous population change in recent years with new arrivals from Africa and the Middle East. This transformation, in part, drove Anders Behring Breivik, charged with Friday's car bombing and shooting spree that killed at least 76 people in the span of a few hours.
Now, even as this country still grieves for its victims, many say how Norway responds to the attacks could define immigration policy in the future.
RECOMMENDED: Norway attacks put spotlight on Europe's right-wing parties. Who are they?
While Mr. Breivik's views, revealed in his 1,500-page tirade against Muslims and multiculturalism, are extreme and his attack reviled by Norwegians of all political leanings, Breivik fed on an undercurrent of prejudice and hatred that exists in some areas of Norwegian society, where being Norwegian is still very much determined by one’s fair skin and light hair.
“We have to find out what kind of country Norway is. That’s where the struggle is going to be in the coming years,” says Thomas Eriksen, a professor of anthropology at the University of Oslo. “And we are going to have to deal with that.”
He says many immigrants still face an uphill battle in terms of integration and acceptance from their fellow Norwegians. “They can acquire our civilization but never our culture,” he says, offering up a common opinion. “In other words, they won’t be ‘us’ they’ll always be the ‘other’.”
Indeed, experts on immigration and integration point to a growing skepticism across Norway that now surrounds most Muslim immigrants. Though Breivik’s thinking is condemned, many of his views aren’t new.
“Some of his ideas are more commonplace than we’d like them to be,” says Rune Berglund Steen, communication manager for the Norwegian Center Against Racism. "This skepticism of Muslims has become a fairly central topic in Norwegian politics.”
Norway’s second-largest political party in parliament, the Progress Party, has been accused of backing xenophobic positions and Breivik was on the party’s member registry until 2006. The party quickly denounced the attacks and Breivik’s beliefs.
Mr. Steen says most Norwegians have a positive view toward immigrants. For example, he said a recent poll found that about 8 out of 10 Norwegians found it favorable if a child attends a school with mixed ethnicities.
But for Breivik and his ilk, Muslim newcomers here represent a "takeover."
“The problem can only be solved if we completely remove those who follow Islam. In order to do this all Muslims must ‘submit’ and convert to Christianity,” he wrote in his manifesto. “If they refuse to do this voluntarily prior to Jan. 1, 2020, they will be removed from European soil and deported back to the Islamic world.”
Most Norwegians, however, reject Breivik’s anti-Islamic views, preferring to see themselves as a tolerant, peaceful people and Breivik as a backwards extremist.
“It’s the fact that he attacked our multiculturalism,” says Alexander Roine, waiting outside the courthouse where Breivik appeared Monday.
Mr. Roine, an Oslo native whose father came from Tunisia, says Norway is rightly famous for its peaceful, tolerant attitude but conceded older generations are still adjusting to the country’s brisk demographic shift.
“We would think a guy with these views would be like 50 or 60 years old,” he says of Breivik. “This guy was born in a Norway that was already multicultural. He attacked everything this country stands for to the last detail.”
Norway has experienced a steady rise in immigration, like many European countries, with the number of its immigrants doubling since 1995.
Most came for the robust economy, political stability and generous welfare state, settling in dense pockets in Norway’s largest cities. It’s estimated that 11 percent of Norwegians are immigrants or the children of immigrants and about 2 percent of the population practices Islam.
RECOMMENDED: Norway attacks put spotlight on Europe's right-wing parties. Who are they?
Related stories
As Norway names dead, religious leaders and counselors offer comfort to a nation
Norwegian police under scrutiny after terror attacks
Norwegians rally around victims as Breivik appears in court
Norway mourns, ponders impact of terror attacks
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Các anh chị nghĩ thế nào, có ý kiến , phê bình gì qua bài viết "Norway terror attack exposes deeper anger over immigration" ?
Norway mourns after terror attacks
People holding flowers pay their respects in front of Oslo Cathedral on July 27. Norway's prime minister pledged a security review after a mourning period for at least 76 people killed by a far-right zealot in bombing and shooting attacks that have traumatized the nation.
Cathal McNaughton/Reuters
Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg speaks to the media in Sundvollen, Norway on July 23.
Aleksander Andersen/Scanpix BNC/AP
Chân thành cám ơn Quý Anh Chị ghé thăm "conbenho Nguyễn Hoài Trang Blog"
Xin được lắng nghe ý kiến chia sẻ của Quý Anh Chị trực tiếp tại Diễn Đàn Paltalk: 1Latdo Tapdoan Vietgian CSVN Phanquoc Bannuoc .
Kính chúc Sức Khỏe Quý Anh Chị .
conbenho
Tiểu Muội quantu
Nguyễn Hoài Trang
29072011
___________
CSVN là TỘI ÁC
Bao che, dung dưỡng TỘI ÁC là đồng lõa với TỘI ÁC
THE FACE OF THE CRISIS IN AFRICA
The face of the crisis in Africa
Yahoo!7
July 28, 2011, 2:14 pm
350 Comments
Seven-month-old Mihag Gedi Farah was just hours away from death when his mother brought him to an aid camp in Dadaab, Kenya.
Mihag's mother embarked on a desperate mission to find aid after all her family's sheep and cattle died, walking for a week before she made it to the field hospital of the International Rescue Committee.
The baby boy, who weighed just 3.4kg when he arrived at the camp, now has only a 50/50 chance of surviving, doctors have said.
The startling image of the emaciated young Kenyan has become a reminder of the hardships faced by people in Africa.
Europe's humanitarian aid commissioner has told of the "heartbreaking" scenes in Somalia and Kenya.
Parts of the Horn of Africa are plagued with disease and starvation, and the UN has declared famine two pockets of Somalia and has warned of it spreading.
$41.15 million of additional aid has been sent to the region by the European Union, which will also provide another $88.81 million this year.
The plight of millions of Africans has worsened in recent times, with the worst drought in 60 years hitting regions of Kenya, Ethiopia, Djibouti and Uganda.
Commissioner Kristalina Georgieva warned of the desperate need of additional assistance in what she described as a “very, very dramatic emergency”.
Where you can donate
Several aid organisations based in Australia have launched appeals for donations to help the people of East Africa.
Donated money goes towards providing health care, food, water, sanitation and refugee assistance and protection.
Many organisations are already on the ground in East Africa, including UNHCR, CARE, The Red Cross and Medecins Sans Frontieres.
Most donations are tax deductible. Information about how your donation is spent can be found on most organisations’ websites.
Unicef Australia East Africa Emergency Appeal
Oxfam East Africa Food Crisis Appeal
Red Cross East Africa Drought Appeal
Care Australia East Africa Drought Crisis Appeal
Australia for UNHCR East Africa Crisis Appeal
Anglicord East Africa Drought Relief Appeal
Medecins Sans Frontieres Australia
Many Somalian refugees are fleeing to Kenya and Ethioia, and the two countries are struggling to cope with the influx.
“Let’s not forget, once they cross these borders, they turn into refugees who may never return and they are creating tremendous pressure on resources in these countries in very harsh parts of Kenya and Ethiopia,” Ms Georgieva said .
Some families had walked up to 30 days to try and reach the Ethiopian border, Ms Georgieva said. Many also make long journeys to Somalia's capital of Mogadishu in search of aid at the newly created camp there.
"Over the past month, UNHCR figures show that nearly 40,000 Somalis displaced by drought and famine have converged on Mogadishu in search of food, water, shelter and other assistance," said Vivian Tan, spokeswoman for the UN High Commissioner for Refugees.
"A further 30,000 have arrived at settlements around Mogadishu.
"In total, it is estimated that Mogadishu has received up to 100,000 internally displaced people over the last two months. The daily numbers are still around 1000 in July," Ms Tan said.
Local fighting has made the distribution of food more difficult for welfare workers.
At an emergency meeting on the Horn Africa drought in Rome Monday, officials said the UN had received about $US1 billion ($924.56 million) since first launching an appeal for the region in November 2010 but needs a billion more by the end of the year to cope with the emergency.
The World Bank on Monday pledged more than $500 million, with the bulk of the money set to go towards long-term projects to aid livestock farmers while $12 million would be for immediate assistance to those worst hit by the crisis.
However charities have slammed low aid pledges and say not enough is being done.
Aid agency Doctors Without Borders (MSF) warned in a statement on Tuesday that the situation remains dire for more than 387,000 mainly Somali refugees now in the Dadaab camp complex in eastern Kenya.
Thousands of refugees continue to arrive but are not receiving basic support, MSF said.
"Whilst many of these refugees remain on the outskirts of the camps they are still not receiving adequate assistance," MSF said in a statement.
"Delays in registration and access to food, water and shelter are tipping them over the edge."
The WFP flights will be carrying around 14 metric tonnes of high energy food aimed to combat malnutrition, especially for children.
Flights will also go to the Ethiopian town of Dolo on the border with Somalia and to the town of Wajir in northern Kenya.
Other organisations have already made relief deliveries, with the UN children's agency airlifting five tonnes of aid into rebel-held part of southern Somalia earlier this month.
The International Red Cross on Sunday said it had handed out 400 tonnes of food in drought-hit areas controlled by the hardline Shebab insurgents, the first ICRC-led drops into such areas since 2009.
The WFP was forced to pull out of southern Somalia last year after a series of threats and curbs on its operations from Shebab rebels, but it has continued to operate in Mogadishu and central and northern regions of the war-torn country.
In Mogadishu alone, WFP assists approximately 300,000 people and it has been scaling up operations with three new centres to feed the large numbers of internally displaced people flooding into the city from the south.
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***
350 COMMENTS
7Thumbs UpThumbs Down9Steve H03:37pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
That is so distressing . Some really do it tough!
2 Replies
33Thumbs UpThumbs Down7Sydney03:38pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
If they would have had petrol, all the world would have "helped" them.
7 Replies
11Thumbs UpThumbs Down1Red260z03:39pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
This is where desal plants need to be built. Help them to save themselves and secure a water supply! Poor things. War and greed and drought. What hope have they got?
Reply
85Thumbs UpThumbs Down101Katie03:42pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
For god sake stop having children, they dont ask to be bought into the world and your starving them, these mothers know @#$% well that they cant feed these children and yet they still keep breeding!Comment hidden due to its low rating. Show
66 Replies
3Thumbs UpThumbs Down1glenda03:42pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
this is just sad.
Reply
36Thumbs UpThumbs Down6Troy03:43pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
i would except 10,000000 of these refugees into australia today b4 i would except 1 elegal boat person this is terrible the governments have much 2 answer 4
4 Replies
21Thumbs UpThumbs Down6The showman03:44pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
I would rather look after these poor people any day of the week, they really need our help. Rather than these boats full of who knows come here.
8 Replies
5Thumbs UpThumbs Down5flamingturd03:45pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
blame Muzzie insurgents crippling their government!!
Reply
7Thumbs UpThumbs Down3Snidery Mark03:45pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
Poor kid, but why would you wanna bring a child into that environment?
4 Replies
40Thumbs UpThumbs Down21Sally03:46pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
My heart breaks when i see these starving babies, but why do the parents keep breeding???? You don't have a baby if you can't afford to feed it. Birth Control should be first on the agenda for these women and the aid workers in Africa should make it a priority to ensure the females have access to it.
24 Replies
0Thumbs UpThumbs Down1*JL*03:47pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
Troy, you are using the wrong word. Except means those will be the ones not allowed. You mean accept.
Reply
4Thumbs UpThumbs Down7Oliver Beer03:49pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
Give them Contraceptives in their water so they stop breeding. These poor children are victims of stupid parents.
2 Replies
4Thumbs UpThumbs Down3melissa03:54pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
interesting how world vision has been using these people to get donations for years and years yet they are still starving WHERE IS THE MONEY??????????? one of the top five things they should be given is sex education and contraception. They dont have the right to bring more humans into the world until they can feed themselves first, its not our problem........... and for all those who feel sorry for them stop and think about all the judgement teen mums get in our own country for having...
8 Replies
1Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Fanny Macfackanaback03:54pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
don't interfere with evolution!
1 Reply
1Thumbs UpThumbs Down0michael03:54pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
That is Africa, The African continent is abundant with wealth and have the resources to feed and care for every human on the continent. But then you add the borders seperating the countries, the tribal segregation and more than a handful of despots and you get starving babies and refugees...
Reply
0Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Cherylyn03:54pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
it is really sad to see such young children suffer...But my question is why do they keep having children knowing all this is happening..
1 Reply
3Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Lord Ian of Glencoe03:55pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
Somalia has no government ! That's the problem here , it's run by rebels ! The poor are just rats to them ! We need to attack the problem at the source ! A pity the UN has as much power as a wet fish !!
2 Replies
3Thumbs UpThumbs Down2BLOWN803:55pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
its very sad but charity starts at home. lets get our own country into shape before we offer too much help to others. and theres no room left here to offer them because of all the illigal imagrants already here. its a sad sad world we live in. the people who do the right thing get a slap around the face and all the evil people get what they want by any means possible.
Reply
4Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Cathy03:56pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
The poor children, my son just complained because I wouldn't let him have ice-cream this afternoon, we are so spoilt here and we don't even know it.
3 Replies
7Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Ramon Angeloni03:56pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
How baby could we feed with the billions that are spent on senseless wars that kill and solve nothing
Reply
7Thumbs UpThumbs Down0Ramon Angeloni03:56pm Thursday 28th July 2011 ESTReport Abuse
How baby could we feed with the billions that are spent on senseless wars that kill and solve nothing
Reply
_____________
Các anh chị có suy nghĩ, ý kiến gì qua bài viết "THE FACE OF THE CRISIS IN AFRICA" và 20 ý kiến phê bình trong số "350 COMMENTS" của đọc giả ?
Trên thế giới hiện còn rất nhiều người đã và đang chết, thân phận của họ còn thua quá xa những con vật.
Chúng ta có thể kết luận được gì khi bản thân những con người đã và đang chết này họ hầu như không có khả năng nào để tự cứu họ. Đau lòng hơn nữa, đây là những đứa trẻ sơ sinh .
Những lý thuyết gia, những nhà khảo cứu, những kỹ thuật gia, những khoa học gia ... trên mọi lãnh vực có suy nghĩ gì trước những con người đã và đang sống thua những con vật này ?
Và sau cùng, những giới có thẩm quyền, những chính trị gia, những người đã và đang nắm trong tay quyền lực trên khắp thế giới, những người đã và đang sống trên những núi của, trên những tiện nghi ngút trời vua chúa, có bao giờ họ nhìn đến tận cùng đáy vực của thế giới này, ở đó những đồng lọai được đặt tên "con người" như họ đã và đang bị HỦY DIỆT .
Và biết đâu nguyên nhân SỰ HỦY DIỆT đó cũng có phần của họ ???
Chân thành cám ơn Quý Anh Chị ghé thăm "conbenho Nguyễn Hoài Trang Blog"
Xin được lắng nghe ý kiến chia sẻ của Quý Anh Chị trực tiếp tại Diễn Đàn Paltalk: 1Latdo Tapdoan Vietgian CSVN Phanquoc Bannuoc .
Kính chúc Sức Khỏe Quý Anh Chị .
conbenho
Tiểu Muội quantu
Nguyễn Hoài Trang
29072011
___________
CSVN là TỘI ÁC
Bao che, dung dưỡng TỘI ÁC là đồng lõa với TỘI ÁC
Arab Spring future in the balance, William Hague warns
The future of the Arab Spring remains in the balance, according to William Hague, who has warned “We are going to be working at this for the rest of our lives”.
William Hague said Britain is unfreezing assets worth £91 million belonging to Arabian Gulf Oil Company Photo: Kerim Okten-Pool/Getty Images
By Damien McElroy, Foreign Affairs Correspondent
7:00AM BST 28 Jul 2011
Mr Hague, the foreign secretary, who on Wednesday expelled the remaining staff of the Libyan embassy as Britain granted political recognition to the country’s opposition, said that the democratic gains made during the six-month series of revolutions risk being for naught thanks to sectarian violence and struggling economies.
“We mustn’t expect each country to be neatly done in six months. It’s not a computer game that comes to an end when you get bored,” he said in an interview with The Times.
He said the future of Egypt would decide the extent to which democracy would flow across the region, calling it “the single most important piece of the jigsaw in the whole Arab Spring”.
Mr Hague spoke amid increasingly frantic diplomatic moves five months into a bombing campaign against the Libyan dictatorship. The foreign secretary said Britain could free up frozen funds for the Libyan opposition.
He said the opposition National Transitional Council (NTC) would be invited to send a diplomatic envoy to take over the Libyan People’s Bureau in Knightsbridge.
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"The Prime Minister and I have decided that the United Kingdom recognises and will deal with the National Transitional Council as the sole governmental authority in Libya," Mr Hague said.
"In line with that decision we summoned the Libyan chargé d’affaires to the Foreign Office today and informed him that he and the other regime diplomats must leave the UK.
"We no longer recognise them as representatives of the Libyan government." The announcement added to concerns that the Government was groping for measures after the failure to oust Col Gaddafi despite five months of Nato attacks.
In Tripoli, Khaled Kaaim, Gaddafi's deputy foreign minister, denounced Britain's move as "irresponsible, illegal and in violation of British and international laws."
Col Bob Stewart, a Conservative MP and former UN commander in Bosnia, said that only political or diplomatic efforts could surmount the military failures of the campaign.
He told the BBC: "It may not be diplomatically or politically a stalemate, but on the ground it looks like what I would term a military stalemate."
The announcement that the current chargé d’affaires was going brought a new twist to the long-running controversy over the mission. As far back as 1980 the embassy was in the headlines after the ambassador publicly threatened two dissidents.
It was closed in 1984 after its officials shot Pc Yvonne Fletcher.
It is believed there are eight staff at the bureau. The chargé d’affaires Khaled Benshaban and the other staff will be given a few days to leave the country.
The Foreign Office took the decision after a meeting of the National Security Council on Libya on Monday.
Mr Hague said Britain was unfreezing assets worth £91 million to the Arabian Gulf Oil Company, which is effectively controlled by the NTC. The funds would help it to provide basic supplies of fuel and wages.
Dominic Grieve, the Attorney General, had blocked earlier attempts to fund the opposition with frozen funds on the grounds that Britain continued to maintain diplomatic relations with Libya.
The British embassy in Tripoli was shut after the Nato bombing campaign against the regime was launched in mid-March. After the embassy was vandalised in May, Omar Jelban, the Libyan ambassador to the UK was expelled.
The United States said it was reviewing a request by Libya's rebels to open an embassy in Washington, following Britain's decision.
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Chilling text exchange provides window into Norway terror
'Mummy... people are dying here'
msnbc.com and NBC News
updated 7/27/2011 7:19:47 PM ET 2011-07-27T23:19:47
While hiding from the gunman during the harrowing 90-minute shooting rampage on Utoya island in Norway last week, Julie Bremnes, 16, kept in contact with her mother via text messaging
Marianne Bremnes received the kind of message that a mother dreads.
“Mummy, tell the police to come quick. People are dying here,” her 16-year-old daughter Julie wrote in a text message from Norway’s Utoya island on Friday.
Like many of the young people attending a Labor Party camp on the island, Julie Bremnes was carrying a cell phone, enabling her to reach her mom while Anders Berhing Breivik was on a 90-minute shooting rampage, killing dozens of people. Her exchange with her mother, released on Wednesday, gives a glimpse into the long, terrifying wait for help.
“The police know,” Marianne Bremnes, 46, texted her daughter. “They’ve had many calls. Give a sign of life every five minutes.”
Julie, was hiding under a rock with three friends while Breivik roamed the island, shooting people as they cowered, ran, or tried to swim for safety.
“We are in fear of our lives,” Julie texted.
Mother: “I understand. Stay hidden.”
As the wait for rescue dragged on, the text conversation seemed a preparation for the worst.
Julie: “I love you even if I still misbehave from time to time."
Mother: “I know that my darling. We love you very much.”
The exchange went on for about 90 minutes.
Julie and her three friends were rescued, physically unharmed.
Many others were not as fortunate.
Breivik shot to death 68 people on the island, and injured many more. Breivik also detonated a bomb at a Norwegian government building in Oslo earlier in the day, killing 8 others before travelling to the island, about 28 miles away.
Adrian Pracon, 21, said members at the camp were gathering for a meeting, to discuss the news of the bombing earlier in the day, which was also carried out by Breivik before he came to the island.
Pracon was shot in the shoulder as he lay among the bodies, hoping to be mistaken for one of the dead.
“I knew it was over,” he told NBC’s Martin Fletcher from his hospital bed. “I knew I was going to die now.”
He said that there were long spells of silence while Breivik was searching for people in hiding, broken occasionally by bursts of gunfire and screams.
“(Breivik) also screamed out that he would kill us all," Pracon said. "That this was the day we would die out,” said Pracon.
On Wednesaday, the Daily Mail reported that the Breivik had consumed a cocktail of drugs prior to his attack in order to be "strong and efficient," according to the defense lawyer. Breivik had plotted to inject poison into the bullets during the attack, though it was unclear whether he had actually done so . He wore a police uniform to draw young campers to him, and appeared in total control during the island rampage, police official Odd Reidar Humlegaard said.
Some of the last-minute cell phone exchanges among loved ones would prove to be their last.
Gunnar Linaker, 23, was speaking by cell phone to his father Roald Linaker in Bardu in northern Norway when the mayhem began.
"He said to me: 'Dad, dad, someone is shooting,' and then he hung up," Roald Linaker said.
Gunnar Linaker was shot and later died in the hospital, having never regained consciousness.
People pay their respects for the victims in last Friday's killing spree and bomb attack, at a temporary memorial site on the shore in front of Utoeya island northwest of Oslo on Wednesday. (Fabrizio Bensch / Reuters)
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Libya: Britain cuts last ties with Gaddafi regime
Push to unfreeze cash assets as William Hague recognises Libyan rebels as government
Nicholas Watt, Robert Booth and Simon Goodley
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 27 July 2011 21.32 BST
Article history
A group of anti-Gaddafi protesters demonstrate outside the Libyan embassy in London. William Hague has expelling all diplomats loyal to Gaddafi. Photograph: Andy Rain/EPA
Britain is to open negotiations at the UN to unfreeze assets running into hundreds of millions of pounds to be funnelled to the Libyan rebel council that was recognised by the UK on Wednesday as the "sole governmental authority" in the country.
As the foreign secretary, William Hague, announced the expulsion of the Libyan chargé d'affaires and the eight remaining Libyan embassy staff in London, British diplomats in New York were drawing up plans to unfreeze assets covered by UN sanctions.
Britain has frozen £12bn of Libyan assets since the conflict began in February this year, the vast bulk of which will remain frozen until the regime of Muammar Gaddafi loses power. But a proportion of the assets can be released if Britain can prove that they will only be used by the Benghazi-based National Transitional Council (NTC).
The push by the UK, which has temporarily closed its embassy in Tripoli, will raise questions about whether the funds will be used to buy arms. Foreign Office sources said assets would remain frozen if there is any evidence or suspicion that they were being used to pay for arms, even for the Libyan rebels. Arms sales of any description to any quarter in Libya are banned by UN sanctions.
But a source close to the NTC said funds may be used to buy weapons. "We can't," a source close to the NTC told the Guardian when asked how it would make sure funds are not used to buy weapons.
The source added: "We are militarily engaged in removing Gaddafi. Therefore it would be a bit strange to say that we are happy for you to have the no-fly zone, but rather that you didn't buy arms.
"They [the NTC] haven't been able to meet their payroll, which is their biggest problem to keep going. They also desperately need money to buy arms, particularly in the western mountains where there is often one weapon between two fighters, who go into battle hoping to get one from the enemy or a fallen comrade."
Hague paved the way for the unfreezing of assets after expelling the last remaining diplomats loyal to Gaddafi and announcing the embassy would be taken over by the NTC, which is now formally recognised by Britain as the government of Libya.
The chargé, Khaled Benshaban, was summoned to a meeting at the Foreign Office, where he was given three days to leave Britain. Other diplomats at the Libyan People's Bureau in London – which has been under heavy police guard since the launch of the military campaign in March – have been told to leave over the course of the summer.
Shortly after the meeting with the chargé, Hague invited the NTC to nominate an ambassador and other diplomats to take over the Libyan mission. In a statement crafted with the advice of Foreign Office lawyers and the attorney general, Dominic Grieve, Hague said: "The prime minister and I have decided that the United Kingdom recognises and will deal with the National Transitional Council as the sole governmental authority in Libya."
The remarks by Hague allowed the government to unfreeze £91m in UK assets belonging to the Arabian Gulf Oil Company, a Libyan oil firm under the NTC's control, which had been on an EU sanctions list. Foreign Office sources said the assets were unfrozen after the NTC gave assurances that the funds would be used to purchase fuel, not arms.
Britain will now open negotiations at the UN in New York on unfreezing assets, covered by UN sanctions, which will be sent to the NTC in Benghazi. Assets would be unfrozen in three ways:
• Exemptions for basic services, such as paying for food and fuel. This can be agreed at the UN security council without a vote as long as there is a consensus.
• Provision for exceptional services such as medical supplies. This would need a formal vote.
• Releasing large assets. This would also need a formal vote. Britain would not apply for the release of these assets, which are inextricably linked to the Gaddafi regime, until the Libyan leader leaves power.
Britain decided to recognise the council after the international Libya contact group – which includes European powers, the US and allies from the Middle East – decided at a recent meeting in Istanbul "to deal with the National Transitional Council … as the legitimate governing authority in Libya".
Hague said: "This decision reflects the National Transitional Council's increasing legitimacy, competence and success in reaching out to Libyans across the country. Through its actions, the National Transitional Council has shown its commitment to a more open and democratic Libya, something that it is working to achieve in an inclusive political process. This is in stark contrast to Gaddafi, whose brutality against the Libyan people has stripped him of all legitimacy."
The foreign secretary said that Britainnow runs its largest diplomatic mission in north Africa after Cairo in the Libyan rebel stronghold of Benghazi. This will be designated as an embassy if the NTC requests an upgrade.
The decision to recognise an opposition group is a rare step for Britain, which declined to follow the example of the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy, who recognised the NTC at the start of the conflict. Britain said at the time it could not recognise the NTC because it recognises states rather than governments.
A Foreign Office source said Britain would continue to abide by the convention by which it recognises states rather than governments, saying: "These are exceptional circumstances. It was an anomaly that we had these people here still representing Gaddafi ... we dragged in the chargé d'affaires. He and his colleagues are now packing their bags."
The Treasury has frozen the assets in the UK of 39 individuals in Gaddafi's government, family and army. A further 53 entities have also had their assets frozen including oil companies, airlines, property companies, banks and investment authorities based in London, the Isle of Man, the British Virgin Islands and in Libya.
In February, £900m of recently printed hard Libyan currency was impounded in the north-east of England. The assets of six Libyan ports were also frozen, including the port in the oil town of Ras Lanuf in the east of the country which was claimed by rebel forces in March.
Hague said Britain only decided to recognise the NTC after it was certain that Libyan students in Britain, who are funded by their embassy, would continue to be supported.
He added that the appearance this week on Libyan television of the Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset al-Megrahi showed it had been a mistake by the Scottish justice minister to release him on compassionate grounds in 2009.Hague said no deadline has been set for the military campaign against the Gaddafi regime. British military chiefs have advised ministers they can continue with the bombing indefinitely.
Hague, who appeared to indicate earlier this week that Britain was more relaxed about Gaddafi's personal future, made it clear that it would be better if he left Libya. But Britain could not dictate the outcome of a political settlement to the Libyan people.
"Let's point out though, at the same time, that the view of the chairman of the NTC is that any successful political settlement does involve Gaddafi leaving Libya and that is what we continue to say is the best solution," he said. "So don't make any mistake about that, but we're saying we can't impose that or guarantee that."
Hague also said Britain was committed to ensuring Gaddafi faced justice before the international criminal court.
The foreign secretary denied that discussions about Gaddafi were part of a back-channel communication with the regime, but did not deny that such a channel existed. The renewed diplomatic offensive comes as British aircraft stepped up the bombing against Gaddafi's security and intelligence apparatus before the start of Ramadan on 1 August.
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Expelling Libyan diplomats is a gamble by William Hague
London has in effect de-recognised the Gaddafi regime. But if things don't go to plan it will leave Hague badly exposed
Comments (61)
Simon Tisdall
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 27 July 2011 13.59 BST
Article history
William Hague is escorted by security personnel during a visit to Benghazi in June. Photograph: Mohammed Salem/REUTERS
William Hague's announcement today that Britain is expelling the remaining eight Libyan diplomats accredited to London represents a further intensification of the military, economic and diplomatic pressure on the beleaguered regime of Muammar Gaddafi.
The foreign secretary's decision is a significant boost for the rebels' Benghazi-based national transitional council, which is viewed by Britain, as of today, as the "sole governmental authority" in Libya. By taking this action, Britain has come into line with the US, France, Italy and other Nato allies, which had already declared the NTC to be the de facto government of Libya.
As a matter of longstanding policy, Britain recognises states, not governments. But in effect London has now "de-recognised" the Gaddafi regime and its representatives in the UK. In doing so, it has further delegitimised the remaining authority of Gaddafi and those around him and has invited the NTC to send a representative – in essence an ambassador – to London.
Speaking at the Foreign Office, Hague did not give a specific reason for taking this action at this time, but set it in the context of the decision of the recent Libya contact group meeting in Istanbul to maximise pressure on the Gaddafi regime. He claimed the move had support from Arab League and African Union countries – many of which, however, continue to deal with Gaddafi's government.
Nor did he shed any light on how he believed the decision may affect the desultory negotiating process with Tripoli that the UN and the Russians are trying, so far without much success, to advance. Hague changed his position on Gaddafi's future earlier this week, saying he could in theory remain in the country (and not go into exile) as long as he surrendered power. That was seen in some quarters as a softening of Britain's position.
Now Hague has gone back on the offensive, stripping Gaddafi of international legitimacy and making clear that any peace settlement in Libya must be struck, first and foremost, under the auspices and with the full agreement of the NTC, as the only credible representative of the Libyan people. Hague was saying to the military and political figures around Gaddafi: the game is up, you have no future. It's time to accept that, cut your losses, and make a deal.
The foreign secretary underscored that message by repeating that the military campaign would go on "as long as it takes", and by drawing attention to Britain's recent decision to deploy an additional four Tornado fighter-bombers. He said Britain would work to unfreeze regime assets, including £91m in oil company assets, and make them available to the NTC.
Evidently with an eye on relations with an oil-rich post-Gaddafi Libya, Hague emphasised that Britain was a "true friend" of the Libyan people and listed all it was doing to help: humanitarian assistance, military and diplomatic advice and material support, and help with policing and security. The British mission in Benghazi was now its biggest in north Africa after Cairo, he said.
Hague's bullishness extended to sharp criticism of the Scottish government's "mistaken" decision two years ago to release the Lockerbie bomber, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi. Megrahi was recently seen on Libyan state television in what was interpreted as a deliberate act of defiance by Gaddafi, aimed at London. Hague described the Scottish doctors' opinion that Megrahi was close to death from prostate cancer as "worthless".
Hague's performance today appeared designed to dispel doubts about the wisdom and effectiveness of the government's strategy and convince his listeners that success was only a matter of time. He emphasised that he had the full support of the prime minister, David Cameron, in ordering the expulsions and pursuing the campaign. He also stressed Britain's leading role in organising the international response to the uprising that began in March.
All this leaves him very exposed if things don't go according to plan, or drag on indefinitely at ever greater cost. Hague admitted indirectly that Britain and its allies have no actual control over what happens next in Libya. That is ultimately up to the Libyan people, and their collective wishes are difficult to gauge.
It may be true that they yearn impatiently for Westminster-style democracy and the warm, unselfish embrace of the west. Or it may be that a compromise internal political settlement that is altogether less clear-cut, and less wholly favourable to western interests, will emerge despite all Britain's not so subtle cajoling.
There is another basic policy problem. Hague cannot escape the ongoing consequences of the personalisation of the Libyan campaign around the unlovely figure of Gaddafi. Early on it became clear that Gaddafi was the primary target and democratisation a secondary aim. The uprising gave Britain, the US and their partners a chance to get even with this much reviled bogeyman after many years of humiliation and repeated outrages. The success of the Libyan policy will consequently be measured, primarily, by what happens to Gaddafi. If he survives, crowing, to fight another day, Hague and others may not.
***
Comments in chronological order (Total 61 comments)
Kerrygold
27 July 2011 2:11PM
London has in effect de-recognised the Gaddafi regime. But if things don't go to plan it will leave Hague badly exposed
Rather strange way to describe a man who has been caught with his trousers down, politically and ...
Mercurey
27 July 2011 2:15PM
Turning in to a farce. Evert since he told us Ghadaffi was already on his way on a plane out, and then it will be over by Christmas, FO seems to be running along the wishing for the best lines of the Treasury.
Government of amateurs.
Where are all the grown ups on politics? Bunch if inexperienced kids in charge where ever one looks.
MERidley
27 July 2011 2:19PM
Why are we taking the lead on this War, it is another adventure we can't afford - the money should be spent on investment in modernising the UK economy.
RobotShone
27 July 2011 2:23PM
Hague's performance today appeared designed to dispel doubts about the wisdom and effectiveness of the government's strategy ... He also stressed Britain's leading role in organising the international response to the uprising that began in March.
Just to clarify:
He also stressed his complicity in an act of international aggression.
bailliegillies
27 July 2011 2:30PM
Can this Foreign Secretary become even more ludicrous? He would do well to learn when to speak and when to keep quiet and now would be a very good time to keep quiet.
The worse aspect is he's starting to make Boy Miliband look statesman like in comparison and I thought that an impossibility given his track record!
Cauldron
27 July 2011 2:36PM
By taking this action, Britain has come into line with the US, France, Italy and other Nato allies, which had already declared the NTC to be the de facto government of Libya.
How much of a 'gamble' can it really be if all these other countries have already done the same thing?
Keo2008
27 July 2011 2:37PM
Now let's not be unkind to Mr. Hague.
I well remember the hours of innocent pleasure he gave us when he wore that baseball cap.
JamesDavid
27 July 2011 2:38PM
Hague admitted indirectly that Britain and its allies have no actual control over what happens next in Libya. That is ultimately up to the Libyan people, and their collective wishes are difficult to gauge.
What a farce. The whole thing was and remains none of our business. We're entangled in yet another crisis in the Muslim world (as if two weren't enough) thanks to yet more schoolboy politicians wanting to look heroic on the world stage. Bloody stupid - the lot of them.
DrainingFaces
27 July 2011 2:47PM
William Hague is a self-important imbecile.
He's a puppet - but the puppeteers probably don't even need to pull his strings.
What NATO is doing in Libya is shameful.
CrisSantos
27 July 2011 2:52PM
"If things don't go to plan"
LOL. What plan? In the last 5 months when did things go to plan, Mr Tisdall?
This is just William Hague throwing whatever he has up in the air, hoping SOMETHING goes right for him.
Things are so badly off-the-plan that I hear Liam Fox is preparing a "not my fault" file.
KatieL
27 July 2011 3:12PM
Militarily, I can't see the rebels winning.
I don't know what Hague can know that makes him so sure they will.
The rebels won't win because this isn't a universally unpopular leader about to be swept from power by either his own people or by an invading army. And the rebels are at best a bunch of enthusiastic but disorganised rabble who happen to own AKs.
Even if it WERE possible, do we really want to see the shitstorm that will go down if the rebels try to take and hold Tripoli by force? I mean given how well the Americans with all the money, time, people and resources they had to hand did in Iraq?
Not happening.
I can't see the rebels giving in either since it pretty much means death at this point. So this is either going to involve a partition or a long term stalemate. And if we're going to contribute meaningfully to either, we need to be on speaking terms with the Tripoli government as well.
So either Hague has more information than we do or he's waving indignation in the hope that it's mistaken for a weapon.
republicantraveller
27 July 2011 3:27PM
Anyone thought that Hague might have sent in the SAS to deal with Gadaffi?
FalseBottomBureau
27 July 2011 3:36PM
OMG. Are you trying to tell me that British foreign policy is driven by opportunism and expediencey.?
And there I was, thinking we were standing up for democracy and human rights.
You mean the stuff about Gaddafi being a terrible dictator who we needed to get rid of by hook or by crook was just a cover for an oil grab?
Is nothing sacred?
hoddle1
27 July 2011 3:37PM
I wish someone would "de-recognise" this unmandated Tory government.
moretheylie
27 July 2011 3:37PM
Anyone thought that Hague might have sent in the SAS to deal with Gadaffi?
i think that was what he meant when he said 'as long as it takes'. its known that special forces were in libya prior to the 'uprising' in the east.
as craig murray writes in his blog, the only option left to claim victory is to assassinate gaddafi.
the independent reports today that Gaddafi now controls 20% more territory than he did before we started the bombing - despite hagues claims to the contrary.
LittleRichardjohn
27 July 2011 3:39PM
Cauldron
27 July 2011 2:36PM
How much of a 'gamble' can it really be if all these other countries have already done the same thing?
Exactly. There's no case to answer. For once Britain is acting in the interest of freedom and good business sense.
To deny support to the rebels simply because that would be good for British business is to be willing to sacrifice Libyan lives to satisfy middle-class nitpicking pacifist scruples.
doughcnut
27 July 2011 3:41PM
He said Britain would work to unfreeze regime assets, including £91m in oil company assets, and make them available to the NTC.
I wonder what that money will be spent on..... not weapons surely?
well, not entirely on weapons
allantracy
27 July 2011 4:18PM
Why are we taking the lead on this War, it is another adventure we can't afford - the money should be spent on investment in modernising the UK economy.
Payback time for Lockerbie or perhaps you would rather have those good citizens wave a white flag for a having a 747 drop on their head.
Iloveoreo
27 July 2011 4:24PM
There is nothing to expose Britain about,other countries did it.Instead of bashing the UK,why not talk about the about face from Russia or China,about how they have started talking to the opposition leadership,and how Russia has said many times that Gaddafi has no future in Libya's politics?
How about exposing that,instead of what William Hague did or did not do.Britain has done NOTHING unusual from the other nations.
Infact we can talk about how Germany,which was against this,has donated millions to the opposition leadership.
There is nothing to leave Britain or it's foreign minister "exposed".
What we should be discussing is what happens if NATO leaves Libya with Gaddafi clinging to power?
What will happen inside the country?
One thing is for sre,the country won't go back to normal and those who rose up against him will never allow him to rule them again,and will fight him and his terrorist mercenaries tooth and nail.
Let us see more migrants fleeing the conflict,going to Europe.Those who say Gaddafi will never become our problem,are dreaming.
The same was said for Milosevic and the likes.
Iloveoreo
27 July 2011 4:32PM
Simon should get real,infact this was long way coming.The fact that UK did not do this long ago,even the U.S did it already,is the main issue.This was a logical first step.There is nothing that will leave the UK "exposed".
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Link NoWarPlease
27 July 2011 4:56PM
Gamble?
This is a meticulously orchestrated western plan for regime change in Libya that simply can't (shouldn't) go wrong.
The rebels are fully assisted by NATO.
By top western bankers, so they could quickly set up a new "central Bank of Libya".
BIG Oil, helped them so they could quickly set up a new National Oil Company.
A plan that just can't go wrong. (or?)
grabsplatter
27 July 2011 5:08PM
By taking this action, Britain has come into line with the US, France, Italy and other Nato allies, which had already declared the NTC to be the de facto government of Libya
How does this make him totally exposed, out on a limb, or whatever else Simon Tisdall would like to describe him as?
Do the editors think that CiF articles are always best when they prove themselves to be drivel?
OxIan
27 July 2011 5:10PM
LittleRichardjohn
27 July 2011 3:39PM
Cauldron
27 July 2011 2:36PM
How much of a 'gamble' can it really be if all these other countries have already done the same thing?
Exactly. There's no case to answer. For once Britain is acting in the interest of freedom and good business sense.
To deny support to the rebels simply because that would be good for British business is to be willing to sacrifice Libyan lives to satisfy middle-class nitpicking pacifist scruples.
But you're overlooking the fact that for many writers it's not what's done, but who does it.
As this is being done by the Coalition government it is, de facto, wrong.
Continent
27 July 2011 5:12PM
The foreign secretary's decision is a significant boost for the rebels' Benghazi-based national transitional council, which is viewed by Britain, as of today, as the "sole governmental authority" in Libya.
At least, the Transitional National Council has now the official recognition in No. 10, because it doesn't seem to be welcome by the rebels at home.
Part 1: Tribal Rivalries Complicate Libyan War Part 2: Gadhafi Played Off Tribes Against Each Other Last week, Omar Hariri, the military coordinator of the Transitional National Council, came to visit Zintan to talk about strategy. But many rebels from the town refuse to take direct orders from such officials. Instead, their allegiance lies with their local command center.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,776695,00.html
Continent
27 July 2011 5:12PM
The foreign secretary's decision is a significant boost for the rebels' Benghazi-based national transitional council, which is viewed by Britain, as of today, as the "sole governmental authority" in Libya.
At least, the Transitional National Council has now the official recognition in No. 10, because it doesn't seem to be welcome by the rebels at home.
Part 1: Tribal Rivalries Complicate Libyan War Part 2: Gadhafi Played Off Tribes Against Each Other Last week, Omar Hariri, the military coordinator of the Transitional National Council, came to visit Zintan to talk about strategy. But many rebels from the town refuse to take direct orders from such officials. Instead, their allegiance lies with their local command center.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,776695,00.html
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Link PraetorianGuard
27 July 2011 5:27PM
Think writers need to catch up.
As outlined by others, Hague et al can see where this is going, Gaddafi's days are numbered, pre-emptive measure, $1.6 million barrels of oil up for grabs, and who knows what's under the sand.
Continent
27 July 2011 5:35PM
The foreign secretary's decision is a significant boost for the rebels' Benghazi-based national transitional council, which is viewed by Britain, as of today, as the "sole governmental authority" in Libya.
Strange, because - according to the American Society of International Law - the UK recognizes only States, not governments. Might just be British humour, or a trick to touch Ghadaffi's nerves, or to encourage the rebels to endure without food and water temperatures of 45 degrees Celsius (113 degrees Fahrenheit) when Ramadan begins next week.
This becomes clear from the fact that several States, whose policy is to recognize only States, not governments (such as Australia, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, and United Kingdom), had no problem with granting such “recognition.†The main purpose of this action seems to have been to express various degrees of political support.
http://www.asil.org/insights110616.cfm
paleologue
27 July 2011 5:38PM
This is another of Hague's wild, unilateral and confused moves. So this raggedy-arsed bunch of bandits send a representative, sorry, ambassador to London and how do they choose this illustrious personage from among the 40 odd members of the Transitional Government? Oh dear I think Billy Hague is in for a very disillusioning experience when the ill-matched and disparate gang finally achieve power and are not able to agree on anything and then what? Civil war most likely until the new strong-man emerges.
SourcePlease
27 July 2011 5:39PM
Gaddafi's days are numbered
Sure, but turns out, there is a certain uncertainty about exact number.
TomLars
27 July 2011 5:40PM
It's not a gamble. It is usually the first move any government does when there's some kind of diplomatic conflict. Even relatively benign ones. At the moment, the UK is engaged in a military operation against Libya under Nato, which is a much greater offense. There's never been as much death in Libya from all sides, than since the start of the Nato bombings. Benghazi was largely pro-rebels, but in the rest of Libya the pro-Gaddafi support in the population is very large.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Tsjt2YyZU0
What is horrible in Libya is the bombing of Libyan people by Nato when all should be resolved through negotiations and elections open to all candidates. The UN security council resolution called for a ceasefire not for the support of one faction in the fighting. It is the first point of the resolution.
Extract from the UNSC resolution 1973
1. Demands the immediate establishment of a ceasefire and a complete end to violence and all attacks against, and abuses of, civilians;
To read the complete resolution: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12782972
The UK army and some other nations under Nato have overstepped the UNSC mandate and are conducting illegal military actions in support of an armed rebellion. It's horrible..
elprofe
27 July 2011 5:45PM
Where does this mandate come from?
How do the French/German/UK etc voting public feel about the loads of money and weapons being showered upon the rebels (AKA "innocent civilians") at their expense?
Not in my name, ta very much.
elprofe
27 July 2011 5:50PM
allantracy: "Payback time for Lockerbie or perhaps you would rather have those good citizens wave a white flag for a having a 747 drop on their head."
As a Scot and (I like to think) a "good citizen", I'd much rather see Hague beheaded than Ghadaffi.
OxIan
27 July 2011 5:51PM
TomLars
27 July 2011 5:40PM
What is horrible in Libya is the bombing of Libyan people by Nato when all should be resolved through negotiations and elections open to all candidates.
In an ideal world, yes. As it is...good luck in convincing Gaddafi on that one.
KhusroK
27 July 2011 5:55PM
Its been tough going for Mr Cameron, Mr Sarkozy and Mr Obama, the latter of course being the "winner" of the Nobel "peace" prize.
1. First, we heard that Mr Gaddafi had flown out to Caracas, because the first NATO bombs scared him badly.
2. Next we heard that in this struggle between Libyans, the NATO coalition was to help the "rebels" with advice and arms
3. Then we were told that Mr Gaddafi could stay in Libya (as if he was in some hurry to leave)
4. Now Mr Hague says Britain has recognized the "rebels" as the "sole", "legitimate" "government" in Libya, with full freedom to hand over control of oil to Mr Hague.
5. Mr Hague has pocketed 200,000 pounds per annum for "writing" for the Murdoch mafia. Some might consider this a bribe. And one wonders whether the oil companies also pay him for 'smiling" at them. Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne keep having backdoor and front door meetings with the Murdoch mafia to discuss "appropriate" matters, as nothing "inappropriate" is ever discussed.
6. Let us see where their "adventures" or misadventures take them, and just where they take the British public - which is not guilty of electing them. One wonders though if their low IQ is necessarily a birth defect, and whether something can be done about it.
WebAliceinwonderland
27 July 2011 6:04PM
lloveoreo,
ab Russia okeying the rebels' government, I think it's a little too early to hope for that :o))))
Mind it this is same Russia, that in a quite pro-state newspaper of the oldie name Komsomol Truth:o), just yesterday tossed in a new idea "What is the West doing in Africa?"
The new idea being the Golfstream is steadily cooling down, all areas of favourable agricultural conditions along it are going to become not so agricultural as before:o)))), damn climate of the planet changes, dear Africa mayhap to become not so much a desert it is now, but quite alright for grwoing something to eat. (as it used to be in the prev. planet climate cycle)
Therefore it's not a bad idea to geta footing in it, which the West is doing by installing puppet government.
I am not advocating the value of the proposition, this is just to show how much "Russia" believes it's about democracy and things what is taking place in North Africa. That such options as explanations are considered.
Hooloovoo
27 July 2011 6:08PM
Very proud of our actions in Libya. Frothing lefties will never see it though. Excellent report in this week's Economist on the progress the NTC is making. 10 miles from Tripoli now and strategic towns falling to them. But because lefties view every action taken by US/UK/The West/whoever as evil, it will never be recognised by them
allantracy
27 July 2011 6:15PM
allantracy: "Payback time for Lockerbie or perhaps you would rather have those good citizens wave a white flag for a having a 747 drop on their head." As a Scot and (I like to think) a "good citizen", I'd much rather see Hague beheaded than Ghadaffi.
Well there’s no helping some people.
But anyway, here’s looking forward to the day the perpetrators of that obscenity get a taste of the new regime’s human rights legislation - oh how we will all laugh at the irony of that one.
OK, it could be a while yet but what’s the betting it’s well before a certain type of terminal illness kicks in.
TomLars
27 July 2011 6:21PM
@OxIan
Gaddafi already agreed to it and the UN envoy has proposed a transitional authority composed equally of government and rebels representatives. This is the best solution for immediate saving of life and long lasting peace among Libyans people.
Gaddafi already agreed not to be part of any transitional authority, but probably want to present himself or his son as a candidate in the future democratic elections. Gaddafi's son said so himself so as the Libyan government spokesman.
ROME (Reuters) – Muammar Gaddafi would agree to internationally supervised elections on condition there is no vote-rigging, one of the Libyan leader's sons told an Italian newspaper in an interview published on Thursday.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/gaddafi-elections-offer-e_n_877970.html
He also said:
He said the elections could be supervised by bodies including the European Union, the African Union, the United Nations or even NATO, which has been bombing Gaddafi's forces.
"The important thing is that the election should be clean, that there should be no suspicion of vote-rigging," he said.
"I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of Libyans stands with my father and sees the rebels as fanatical Islamist fundamentalists, terrorists stirred up from abroad, mercenaries on the orders of (French President Nicolas) Sarkozy."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/16/gaddafi-elections-offer-e_n_877970.html
Imagine that. The Libyan government already accepted a democratic election under international supervision!! As long as they can present themselves as candidates. Which we can all agree is pretty fair.
cactuswizzard
27 July 2011 6:26PM
it seems to me that Hague and Cameron are on an internal competition to outdo each other on who can get away with the dumbest decision in current government. Cameron is at the moment obviously slightly in the lead with his decision to employ Coulson as his adviser but don't despair
Hague,s s decision on a no fly zone so far shows that he is not running far behind No doubt the last couple of month bombing campaign have convinced most people apart from the said politicians involved that it has achieved absolutely nothing
especially as the only aircraft carrier that would have been useful to station the planes closer to the target had been retired. and the planes have therefore got a much longer fly path.....
The gunship helicopters did not really make the promised big difference and the current diplomatic effort is just further prove that there is no clear thinking behind any of this action..........
cactuswizzard
27 July 2011 6:26PM
it seems to me that Hague and Cameron are on an internal competition to outdo each other on who can get away with the dumbest decision in current government. Cameron is at the moment obviously slightly in the lead with his decision to employ Coulson as his adviser but don't despair
Hague,s s decision on a no fly zone so far shows that he is not running far behind No doubt the last couple of month bombing campaign have convinced most people apart from the said politicians involved that it has achieved absolutely nothing
especially as the only aircraft carrier that would have been useful to station the planes closer to the target had been retired. and the planes have therefore got a much longer fly path.....
The gunship helicopters did not really make the promised big difference and the current diplomatic effort is just further prove that there is no clear thinking behind any of this action..........
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Link unionmaid
27 July 2011 6:35PM
The words 'NATO puppet regime' seem appropriate for this strange alliance of Islamists, ex Gadhaffi henchmen and CIA assets.
I agree with ME Ridley, that the more than £1billion spent on this colonial adventure should have been invested in modernising British industry
paleologue
27 July 2011 6:38PM
Scenario:- The present Libyan incumbents of the Embassy all immediately claim political asylum and go onto benefits and in a few years time form a Transitional National Council in Exile.
One other thing when the present TNC becomes the actual Libyan Government and take power will they even bother with elections? And will all the Libyan exiles at present in this country immediately give up their cushy lives over here and flock back to their mother/fatherland to put their shoulders to the wheel of reconstruction?
zahirulhoque
27 July 2011 6:40PM
THE DESTINY OF A NATION: THE WHITE MEN´S LEGACY One nation´s destiny in the Third World is not an isolated matter. It is closely linked with it´s past and present. In the past their destiny was determined by the western colonial hegemony. Now they are facing it in different form what I termed as “Western Democratic Dictatorshipâ€. The consequences of the past colonialism are so enormous that the people of that part of the world are still trying hard to escape this inhuman nightmare. While they are trying to take a breathing-time of thinking about how to pull their nations from the scratch of ruin, just in this time the west appeared again before the Third World with a wave of war-terrorism. The aim is not only to establish their full-scale ownership on the Third World resources that are needed for their continual survival with their World´s super power image. But also, their other aim is to bring about a complete halt to any prospectus development through massive bombing and destruction of potential development infrastructures there.
I n the ten years-long war in Afganistan, they destroyed there almost every thing. They killed thousands of people. Those who survived, they do not have any hope, any bright future. The consequence of Iraq invasion is more tragic and more horrific. They killed about 205000 people (It is my personal observation. The whisle blower Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, put a different figure) made more than 6ooooo human-beings homeless, destroyed almost all potential infrastructures. After accomplishing their heroic adventures, they quickly ran away from Iraq with their lives which the western media lovingly called “Exitâ€. But they left behind a nightmare-scenario where people would kill people, which nobody knows will come to an end. Once a prosperous and stable country with a maximum level of life security, it is now doomed into chaos, bloodshed, virtually with no future. The same situation has been created in Libya. But in one of my articles I firmly told: …This time too, the Western Grand Design will fail in Libya in the same manner which happened in Afganistan and Iraq.
Look at the story that should not be banished from our living memory.
Obama, the mighty president of so-called mighty America, declared proudly just before conducting the massive air bombing in Libya: Only 2 or 3 days (as far as I can remember). Only 2 or 3 days have already gone away. It is the fifth month of an unaccountable and aggressive air bombing in Libya by the whole body of the entire western power machines. Muammar Gaddafi is still alive, and leading his country, people and military forces. The west is already (about four months ago) defeated and the Libyan won the battle. The west needs to be shamed but not be insulted. The example of Libya provides them a stern warning about their past and present deeds and guilt in the Third World. They need to seek soul-purification and self-pacification. It can only be achieved through their own realization and recognition of their guilt and offence. It can not be achieved through staging of unjust and unethical wars and military muscle. Continued…
WilliamOneTell
27 July 2011 6:45PM
Notwithstanding the comments of the basket weavers and other Gaddafi apologistsosting here, I'm sure at the end of the day, that the Libyans will be mighty pleased to finally get out from under the sandals of Gaddafi and his associated bunch of thugs.
As for Gaddafi and his acolytes, I'm mighty pleased that Nato is giving those boys a right pounding. Keep up the good work!
WilliamOneTell
27 July 2011 6:45PM
Notwithstanding the comments of the basket weavers and other Gaddafi apologistsosting here, I'm sure at the end of the day, that the Libyans will be mighty pleased to finally get out from under the sandals of Gaddafi and his associated bunch of thugs.
As for Gaddafi and his acolytes, I'm mighty pleased that Nato is giving those boys a right pounding. Keep up the good work!
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Link coffeegirl
27 July 2011 6:46PM
Now Hague has gone back on the offensive, stripping Gaddafi of international legitimacy and making clear that any peace settlement in Libya must be struck, first and foremost, under the auspices and with the full agreement of the NTC, as the only credible representative of the Libyan people.
Of all Libyan people? Including millions who are against rebels?
What has Britain done to deserve such a clown?
TomLars
27 July 2011 6:53PM
It's funny how western diplomats always acts like much hollier than thou while journalists seems have short memory. A few years and months ago those same UK government were supporting Mubarak in Egypt with arms sales and calling him an ally.
Cheney: Mubarak long has been U.S. ally
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/6/cheney-mubarak-long-has-been-us-ally/
“He's been a good friend and ally of the United States,†Mr. Cheney said of Mr. Mubarak,
Tony Blair: Mubarak is 'immensely courageous and a force for good'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/tony-blair-mubarak-courageous-force-for-good-egypt
US gov VP Biden: "Mubarak has been an ally of ours [... ]I would not refer to him as a dictator"
Same as they do with the Saudi Arabian sultans now. Obviously that was all before the Egyptian people kick Mubarak out (in a non armed protest btw).
coffeegirl
27 July 2011 7:06PM
@ WilliamOneTell
I'm sure at the end of the day, that the Libyans will be mighty pleased to finally get out from under the sandals of Gaddafi
You are sure? All the Libyans or maybe half of them? What if they are only 1/3 or a quarter? How can you be sure about that, do you know that many Libyans, have you lived among them for years, crossed the country many times and spoke to the folk from towns and villages many times and on many occasions or all your knowledge was spoon-fed by our media? What about civilian casualties of that 'right pounding' of yours or are they a mere collateral damage insignificant to the final 'greater good'?
SourcePlease
27 July 2011 7:09PM
WebAliceinwonderland
Mind it this is same Russia, that in a quite pro-state newspaper of the oldie name Komsomol Truth:o), just yesterday tossed in a new idea "What is the West doing in Africa?"
This newspaper is on the extreme yellow side, so it doesn't matter what it says. Bot on the other hand, also what are saying Medvedev or Margelov. They are just they to say words that please West.
if you want to know real Russian interest, it's quite simple. They have not the best relations with both Gaddafi (who were trying to be on the fence and very stingy with weapon contracts) and with NATO. So if those two pound each other, it's just freaking Christmas.
As for people of Libya, Russia's position is to help them regardless of allegiance. Which is wise, as it will help in future relations regardless of who win in the end.
MOSCOW, July 26 (Itar-Tass) - Russia has sent to Libya another batch of humanitarian aid, sources from the information department of the Russian Ministry for Emergency Situations told Tass on Tuesday. “At 9 am Moscow time, an Il-76 plane tool off from Ramenskoye airfield to Tripoli. The plane will deliver there 36.2 tons of humanitarian cargo - milk preserves, baby food, sugar and rice,†the sources said. This is already the fourth batch of relief for Libya. Early in July, EMERCOM planes airlifted to Benghazi 72 tons of humanitarian cargo. Last week, another 36 tons of humanitarian cargo were sent to Benghazi.
Oh, and China's position is about same, I think.
unionmaid
27 July 2011 7:12PM
Just seen Hague on C4. Its an admission of failure.
You have to ask yourselves what on earth is NATO for? It ( plus it's hangers on minus France) couldn't deliver mission in Iraq, in fact the British forces were driven from Basra by a rag tag Shia militia. NATO can't win in Afghanistan even after 10 years. And now the Libya fiasco, reduced to bombing the water system and bolckading the coast to starve them into submission.
NATO not fit for purpose and should be abolished
hieros
27 July 2011 7:14PM
this must surely be meant to be a distraction from the govt + murdoch + police crisis which is currently running
zahirulhoque
27 July 2011 7:16PM
THE DESTINY OF A NATION: THE WHITE MEN´S LEGACY One nation´s destiny in the Third World is not an isolated matter. It is closely linked with it´s past and present. In the past their destiny was determined by the western colonial hegemony. Now they are facing it in different form what I termed as “Western Democratic Dictatorshipâ€. The consequences of the past colonialism are so enormous that the people of that part of the world are still trying hard to escape this inhuman nightmare. While they are trying to take a breathing-time of thinking about how to pull their nations from the scratch of ruin, just in this time the west appeared again before the Third World with a wave of war-terrorism. The aim is not only to establish their full-scale ownership on the Third World resources that are needed for their continual survival with their World´s super power image. But also, their other aim is to bring about a complete halt to any prospectus development through massive bombing and destruction of potential development infrastructures there.
I n the ten years-long war in Afganistan, they destroyed there almost every thing. They killed thousands of people. Those who survived, they do not have any hope, any bright future. The consequence of Iraq invasion is more tragic and more horrific. They killed about 205000 people (It is my personal observation. The whisle blower Julian Assange, the founder of WikiLeaks, put a different figure) made more than 6ooooo human-beings homeless, destroyed almost all potential infrastructures. After accomplishing their heroic adventures, they quickly ran away from Iraq with their lives which the western media lovingly called “Exitâ€. But they left behind a nightmare-scenario where people would kill people, which nobody knows will come to an end. Once a prosperous and stable country with a maximum level of life security, it is now doomed into chaos, bloodshed, virtually with no future. The same situation has been created in Libya. But in one of my articles I firmly told: …This time too, the Western Grand Design will fail in Libya in the same manner which happened in Afganistan and Iraq.
Look at the story that should not be banished from our living memory.
Obama, the mighty president of so-called mighty America, declared proudly just before conducting the massive air bombing in Libya: Only 2 or 3 days (as far as I can remember). Only 2 or 3 days have already gone away. It is the fifth month of an unaccountable and aggressive air bombing in Libya by the whole body of the entire western power machines. Muammar Gaddafi is still alive, and leading his country, people and military forces. The west is already (about four months ago) defeated and the Libyan won the battle. The west needs to be shamed but not be insulted. The example of Libya provides them a stern warning about their past and present deeds and guilt in the Third World. They need to seek soul-purification and self-pacification. It can only be achieved through their own realization and recognition of their guilt and offence. It can not be achieved through staging of unjust and unethical wars and military muscle. Continued…
Berchmans
27 July 2011 7:24PM
WilliamOneTell
## Notwithstanding the comments of the basket weavers and other Gaddafi apologists##.
Name them.Grow a pair.Dont just leave inflammatory posts weakly hinting at vague and fanciful nonsense. This isnt the fourth form now.
____________
Các anh chị có ý kiến, phê bình gì qua bài viết "Expelling Libyan diplomats is a gamble by William Hague" và một số trong "61 Comments" của đọc giả ?
Các anh chị có thấy có sự "mâu thuẩn" nào trong "chính sách ngọai giao" của Anh đối với tình hình Libya hiện tại cũng như tương lai ??
Và các cường quốc đã và đang "chấp thuận" cho độc tài Gadhafi và gia đình của Gadhafi được ở lại Libya "nếu Gadhafi từ bỏ quyền lực" có ý nghĩa gì với việc tố cáo, cũng như lệnh truy nả "Tội phạm Gadhafi" của Tòa Án Quốc Tế ???
Còn nữa, những người VN bị MẤT NƯỚC vào tay bè lũ PHẢN QUỐC CƯỚP NƯỚC DIỆT CHỦNG BÁN NƯỚC ĐỘC đảng ĐỘC tài csVN có thể học thêm bài học gì qua Cách Mạng LẬT ĐỔ cầm quyền độc tài đã và đang tiếp tục ở Bắc Phi và Trung Đông, cụ thể qua tình hình hiện nay tại Libya ???
Còn nhiều vấn đề khác nữa các anh chị có thể góp ý , thảo luận ...
Chân thành cám ơn Quý Anh Chị ghé thăm "conbenho Nguyễn Hoài Trang Blog"
Xin được lắng nghe ý kiến chia sẻ của Quý Anh Chị trực tiếp tại Diễn Đàn Paltalk: 1Latdo Tapdoan Vietgian CSVN Phanquoc Bannuoc .
Kính chúc Sức Khỏe Quý Anh Chị .
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